Southern Rail STRIKE details

[The Clamp]

If you've really been following the story, you'll know that what you've posted has no value.

The truth has been posted on here time and time and time again, yet you choose to go your own way.

DOO trains being used since the 1980s isn't the point to make here. Precedent isn't enough to justify its introduction. The system in the south east isn't ready for it. This much is well-known. One of the reasons for so many delays (there are many) is because the equipment isn't up to scratch, and Southern won't update it.

The staff know this, the unions know this, the passengers who've actually looked up the information on it know this, and guess what? The Railway Delivery Group (former the Association of Train Operating Companies) know this, and therefore the government knows this. It appears that only you don't, and you're prepared to tell everyone this.

So rather than do as you would want (i.e. be reckless and dangerous in your own ignorant way), and risk everything, the driver makes sure everything is OK before heading off. But it takes time. The guard would have done this before, but can't now.

And what do you do? Promote yourself as truly ignorant, and sneer at the fact that someone who is legally responsible for the safety of hundreds of people is doing their job properly.

Wrong on every count. You are truly ignorant and have fallen hook, line and sinker into RMT rhetoric. All your posts scream ignorance masked by pomposity.

Answer me this. If safety is the primary concern of RMT members and DOO trains are so dangerous, an accident waiting to happen...how come drivers are not flatly refusing to drive them? Why just no overtime and the odd strike?
Seems odd if they are so dangerous the drivers would agree to drive these DOO 12 carriage death traps at all.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I am sincerely sorry you had to do some work. I hope through this latest industrial action you and your comrades will never have to face the prospect of leaving your seat again. And with the new intake of OBS you shouldn't have too much to do. Stay strong.

Setting new levels of cockishness.

 

[The Large One]

I wouldn't worry too much ..... he spent ages telling everyone who would listen the recent report would explain everything and then when it was published decided to dismiss it completely because it didn't back his opinion !

Industrial relations were outside the remit of the Chris Gibb report, and he spent less than one page out of 163 talking about it - without talking to the parties in question. So how much value can be placed on that opinion?

We also know it's not true, as the disruption started way before any industrial action, exacerbated by Southern's refusal to act upon their own remedial plans (how many are we up to now?)

This latest fine is contemptible, and merely a request for another remedial plan.

 

[The Large One]

Setting new levels of cockishness.

Wrong on every count. You are truly ignorant and have fallen hook, line and sinker into RMT rhetoric.

No, this one is.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/willsonshakes/status/885438830056275968

[tweet]885438830056275968[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/willsonshakes/status/885440565583720453

[tweet]885440565583720453[/tweet]

 

[The Clamp]

So, if safety is the key issue here can anyone explain why drivers are not refusing outright to drive the DOO trains. For example, the driver on here who had to go and switch the alarm off and believes the new system is dangerous, why did you even get on the 12 carriage train with no guard and 1500 vulnerable passengers? If safety is so paramount, why even risk it all all?

 

[The Large One]

Wrong on every count. You are truly ignorant and have fallen hook, line and sinker into RMT rhetoric. All your posts scream ignorance masked by pomposity.

When Southern themselves acknowledge that they need to upgrade their technology, who are you to say otherwise?

Answer me this. If safety is the primary concern of RMT members and DOO trains are so dangerous, an accident waiting to happen...how come drivers are not flatly refusing to drive them? Why just no overtime and the odd strike?
Seems odd if they are so dangerous the drivers would agree to drive these DOO 12 carriage death traps at all.

Who said anything about them being 'death traps'? Is resorting to hysteria your best line of argument?

As the RSSB point out, DOO is safe - IF certain upgrades and criteria are met. (MPs merely repeat the empty rhetoric of 'DOO is safe' without adding the conditional phrase that the RSSB put in).

The most 'dangerous' time on a train is what is called 'PTI' (Platform/Train Interface) - i.e. getting off and on. DOO has worked before in other areas because it has operated on manned stations, with assistance being provided. On Southern, many stations are not manned and so assistance is not provided. The OBS has no duties at station stops.

DOO becomes unsafe an incident occurs. The driver - who is legally responsible for the safety of the passengers - may not know something has happened. And this will only increase the problem.

 

[The Clamp]

https://twitter.com/willsonshakes/status/885438830056275968

[tweet]885438830056275968[/tweet]

I think you'd be hard pushed to find a commuter that thinks Southern's problems are exclusively down to industrial action.

 

[The Clamp]

When Southern themselves acknowledge that they need to upgrade their technology, who are you to say otherwise?



Who said anything about them being 'death traps'? Is resorting to hysteria your best line of argument?

As the RSSB point out, DOO is safe - IF certain upgrades and criteria are met. (MPs merely repeat the empty rhetoric of 'DOO is safe' without adding the conditional phrase that the RSSB put in).

The most 'dangerous' time on a train is what is called 'PTI' (Platform/Train Interface) - i.e. getting off and on. DOO has worked before in other areas because it has operated on manned stations, with assistance being provided. On Southern, many stations are not manned and so assistance is not provided. The OBS has no duties at station stops.

DOO becomes unsafe an incident occurs. The driver - who is legally responsible for the safety of the passengers - may not know something has happened. And this will only increase the problem.

With this in mind, if they are dangerous , why are the drivers even agreeing to drive them at all. You haven't addressed the question at all, just reinforced my point.

I'll spell it out to you. The RMT and their members are refusing overtime and striking to try and secure their jobs and secure an even better pay deal than already offered. If it was about passenger safety they would refuse to drive the trains at all.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So this fine is paying for resources that they should be providing in the first place as franchise operator?

 

[beorhthelm]

So this fine is paying for resources that they should be providing in the first place as franchise operator?

its been pointed out before they are not a normal franchisee, they are more a managed service contractor. so they've been instructed to spend in directed areas.

i'd have thought spending more on drivers so they are nearer 100% staffed in that area would be more productive.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

With this in mind, if they are dangerous , why are the drivers even agreeing to drive them at all. You haven't addressed the question at all, just reinforced my point.

I'll spell it out to you. The RMT and their members are refusing overtime and striking to try and secure their jobs and secure an even better pay deal than already offered. If it was about passenger safety they would refuse to drive the trains at all.

The RMT have been striking and ASLEF refusing to work overtime.

 

[Yoda]

Not only have I followed it every step, I have looked into the history of DOO trains since they started in the 80's. an inconvenient truth but they are perfectly safe, they were in the 80's and they are now.

Yes, perfectly safe.

"At least 15 serious accidents were recorded in the last decade, including three in 2015. In two incidents last year, people were pulled beneath the train." - From The Rail Accident Investigation Branch.

Try telling those 15 people it is PERFECTLY safe. Perfectly safe would mean there were NO, ZERO, Incidents during that time and the figure is rising on average per decade since the introduction of DOO.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes, perfectly safe.

"At least 15 serious accidents were recorded in the last decade, including three in 2015. In two incidents last year, people were pulled beneath the train." - From The Rail Accident Investigation Branch.

Try telling those 15 people it is PERFECTLY safe. Perfectly safe would mean there were NO, ZERO, Incidents during that time and the figure is rising on average per decade since the introduction of DOO.

For the sake of balance how many serious accidents were there over the same period that didn't involve a DDO train ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/SpeedySticks007/status/885464594533273600

[tweet]885464594533273600[/tweet]




https://twitter.com/airwolf21/status/885465220679860224

[tweet]885465220679860224[/tweet]

 

[Yoda]

For the sake of balance how many serious accidents were there over the same period that didn't involve a DDO train ?

That, I don't know unfortunately.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/MattWoosie/status/885460467388489728


[tweet]885460467388489728[/tweet]

 

[albionite]

GTR: Southern/GX Ballot Result

Strike Action
Yes 514 61.8%
No 318 38.2%
Papers sent 1,032
Papers returned 832 80.6%

Action Short of a Strike
Yes 654 78.4%
No 180 21.6%
Papers sent 1,032
Papers returned 834 80.8%

Drivers strike ballot

 

[beorhthelm]

For the sake of balance how many serious accidents were there over the same period that didn't involve a DDO train ?

the RMT Dossier (page 4-5) cites 10 incidents since 2011, two which where non-DOO. conclusion is nothing is perfectly safe, but then i think we all know that.