Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Farcial scenes at Victoria last night as trains to the south coast were delayed, and cancelled. Am seriously considering binning London nights out where I have to get a late train back on a week night, it's not worth the hassle. It's bad enough getting back to Brighton (only one train running between 10.30 and 1am last night) getting back to Eastbourne/Hastings/Littlehampton etc a complete nightmare.

That's shocking. The minute they start that wholesale cancellation stuff at Victoria I always just take the first train going to East Croydon and try to pick up a Thameslink train from there. At least it gives you a sporting chance of getting back to Sussex without having to do battle with the masses on the concourse at Victoria when they finally show a Sussex train on the board. Feel desperately sorry for anybody trying to use the Coastway East or West trains at the moment.

 

[Hotchilidog]

That's shocking. The minute they start that wholesale cancellation stuff at Victoria I always just take the first train going to East Croydon and try to pick up a Thameslink train from there. At least it gives you a sporting chance of getting back to Sussex without having to do battle with the masses on the concourse at Victoria when they finally show a Sussex train on the board. Feel desperately sorry for anybody trying to use the Coastway East or West trains at the moment.

That is sound advice. I agree about the coastway passengers, they have been let down really badly.

 

[Ernest]

That is sound advice. I agree about the coastway passengers, they have been let down really badly.

Apparantly this weekend is going to be even worse for cancellations, many on leave to watch the football etc , not sick BTW and nobody allowed to work overtime to cover the jobs

 

[Deadly Danson]

I have never known anything like this - the service is so appalling at the moment that it is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured, whether its a member of staff assaulted by an irate passenger or a traveller injured by overcrowding. I'm sick to death of having to apologise for delays and cancellations that I have no control over. I have had to drive a 12 coach Brighton to Victoria service empty over the last couple of days due to Southern cancelling it as a passenger service - empty that is except for the guard who was present and correct! [MENTION=12880]Hotchilidog[/MENTION] - I was chatting to the guard you mentioned and he was exasperated that Southern wouldn't let him run the train in service until someone finally relented. It's a farcical situation whereby train crew are having to, in some cases, campaign to get the people who run the trains to run a train. Only direct action by passengers will see anything changing - the Dft seem more than happy to let the situation continue as it is so you need to continue to write to your MPs.
I know some of you would disagree but it's a shame the High Court decided against Aslef and in so doing stopped drivers from striking. Although from a customer viewpoint if drivers had gone on strike there would have been next to no service, the net result would have probably been GTR and the Dft backing down much quicker. As it stands, the service will get worse and worse as the summer progresses.

 

[dazzer6666]

I have never known anything like this - the service is so appalling at the moment that it is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured, whether its a member of staff assaulted by an irate passenger or a traveller injured by overcrowding. I'm sick to death of having to apologise for delays and cancellations that I have no control over. I have had to drive a 12 coach Brighton to Victoria service empty over the last couple of days due to Southern cancelling it as a passenger service - empty that is except for the guard who was present and correct! [MENTION=12880]Hotchilidog[/MENTION] - I was chatting to the guard you mentioned and he was exasperated that Southern wouldn't let him run the train in service until someone finally relented. It's a farcical situation whereby train crew are having to, in some cases, campaign to get the people who run the trains to run a train. Only direct action by passengers will see anything changing - the Dft seem more than happy to let the situation continue as it is so you need to continue to write to your MPs.
I know some of you would disagree but it's a shame the High Court decided against Aslef and in so doing stopped drivers from striking. Although from a customer viewpoint if drivers had gone on strike there would have been next to no service, the net result would have probably been GTR and the Dft backing down much quicker. As it stands, the service will get worse and worse as the summer progresses.

What do you think would work in terms of direct action by passengers ? Genuine question - something needs to be done - but we can't go ticketless, we can't boycott trains, most wouldn't want to waste any more time than we already do by protesting etc, letters/tweets/emails appear to be a waste of time and we can't do anything that impacts safety

 

[grummitts gloves]

Have they started cancelling the service just for that now as well? It's happened a few times on the 6.15 where there has been no guard available, but they just don't stop at Hassocks.

Why the hell do they ned a conductor for Hassocks?? I've been commuting from there for 13 years and never heard that as an excuse before! Absolute shambles!

 

[Deadly Danson]

What do you think would work in terms of direct action by passengers ? Genuine question - something needs to be done - but we can't go ticketless, we can't boycott trains, most wouldn't want to waste any more time than we already do by protesting etc, letters/tweets/emails appear to be a waste of time and we can't do anything that impacts safety

I honestly don't know. It's an incredibly difficult situation because they have you by the short and curlies. They don't care if you use the trains or not because they don't get the money from your tickets. And because you are not one group of people - like for example Brighton fans - it would be very hard to coordinate. I think that to make any difference this has to hit the mainstream media but it's hard because most of them have no time for unions and can't believe that the Dft would instigate this. The Private Eye article was spot on and more articles like this would help. I guess the power lies in the MPs and if enough people open their eyes to the real issues it might make a difference.

 

[pasty]

Why the hell do they ned a conductor for Hassocks?? I've been commuting from there for 13 years and never heard that as an excuse before! Absolute shambles!

I believe it is a safety issue. There are no staff at Hassocks station so the responsibility of making sure it is safe to close the doors and move off would have to fall to a driver if no guard.

 

[pasty]

I honestly don't know. It's an incredibly difficult situation because they have you by the short and curlies. They don't care if you use the trains or not because they don't get the money from your tickets. And because you are not one group of people - like for example Brighton fans - it would be very hard to coordinate. I think that to make any difference this has to hit the mainstream media but it's hard because most of them have no time for unions and can't believe that the Dft would instigate this. The Private Eye article was spot on and more articles like this would help. I guess the power lies in the MPs and if enough people open their eyes to the real issues it might make a difference.

This is the biggest problem. I initially thought maybe some kind of boycott, or occupying the station in such a way that no trains could run, but Southern simply would not give a toss as it would not affect them one iota.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What do you think would work in terms of direct action by passengers ? Genuine question - something needs to be done - but we can't go ticketless, we can't boycott trains, most wouldn't want to waste any more time than we already do by protesting etc, letters/tweets/emails appear to be a waste of time and we can't do anything that impacts safety

I've suggested before a 'Show Southern The Red Card' protest. OK, it's not exactly DIRECT direct action but if somebody could produce a simple yet stunning logo featuring the Southern logo inside a red card (a simple tap-in for some of the talented folk on here) it could easily snowball and go viral. Facebook/twitter page, stickers, balloons, badges, anything that would catch the eye and capture the attention of the media. Could well provide a rallying point and I don't really see that many of the ordinary folks who's lives are being massively disrupted by this most dysfunctional of companies would have any problem with signing up to such an old-skool Albionesque form of protest.

SHOW SOUTHERN THE RED CARD

Make it happen!

 

[Ernest]

No company subsidy sadly. I am based in Canary Wharf, but work from home a couple of days a week and also travel a fair bit overseas, so the economics of annual vs weekly vs daily tickets are a bit of a challenge. I usually get a weekly ticket as it works out cheaper than 3 single day tickets (£121 for a week), but I wouldn't get value from an annual season ticket. It's just something you have to accept working in London - captive market market with no realistic alternative. Pay for equivalent roles in London is higher than outside - I work in Banking but in a back office function not sales/trading - and there is a much wider range of jobs. The role I have doesn't really exist in any bank in the UK outside of London of comparable size.

There are cheaper day return options if you look, the Aldershot option still saves a few quid

 

[grummitts gloves]

I believe it is a safety issue. There are no staff at Hassocks station so the responsibility of making sure it is safe to close the doors and move off would have to fall to a driver if no guard.

The Gatwick Express stops at Hassocks quite a bit with no conductor. I reckon they dropped Hassocks to get to Brighton quicker as it was at least 20 minutes late before it even made it to Gatwick. GTR = CJTC's.

 

[Gwylan]

There are cheaper day return options if you look, the Aldershot option still saves a few quid

Tell me more. I have to go to London on Monday and the cheapest day return before 9.00 (according to Trainline) is £51

 

[Ernest]

Tell me more. I have to go to London on Monday and the cheapest day return before 9.00 (according to Trainline) is £51

Hove to Aldershot day return via Clapham Junction is 26 quid plus a Zone 1/2 travel card for 12 quid

 

[albionite]

Interesting blog for those that want to know more about what is going on.

http://davidboyle.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-real-reason-southern-rail-services.html

 

[The Albion Roar]

Interesting blog for those that want to know more about what is going on.

http://davidboyle.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-real-reason-southern-rail-services.html

An interesting blog, and some even more interesting comments further down.

 

[Easy 10]

An interesting blog, and some even more interesting comments further down.

That's an understatement. Worth publishing on here I think...

I've just received this comment, which I reproduce here in its entirety: Hi David,
I have just seen your blog post on the current situation at southern rail and would like to clear up some confusion around the situation.i, as most of you commuters am extremely fed up of the company spun and lies and am looking for a platform to shed some light on he situation. I tried to comment but as a non gmail user I was unable to do so. You have my permission to post my email however if you chose to do so I want it posted in its entirety if that's ok. I am an employee of southern so would appreciate it if you would refrain from making my email address public.

I know the current situation is extremely infuriating but it needs to be looked at from two sides. firstly the current agreement between govia and the DFT.
This is in fact a management contract which differ's from every other agreement throughout the country. All other TOC's hold something called a franchise agreement. Everyone is different but essentially they r responsible for the day to day running of that network. They have specific requirements they have to meet but they generally make the decisions, however with govia's management agreement they have no control or make no decisions. All he terms, targets and and plans have been set out by the DFT. Govia are simply there to implement the changes.
This is unique and has occurred for one reason and one reason only. A test bed for the rest of the country.
In 2011 a report called the McNulty report was published sand set out a number of wide ranging proposals for cutting cost on he railways. Since then the DFT has been putting together a plan to 'streamline' costing on the railway. One of the major changes was to rid the network of guards. (Along with many other members of staff)
What we are seeing (along with arriva Wales and first scotrail) is the beginning of these changes. Many people have asked why MP's and media outlets have been so quite on the matter and as to why govia have no fear of losing the franchise. This is because they are purely the axemen. The DFT will not remove them as they want the company to be the face of the changes to avoid huge public objections aimed at the conservative government. The senior management are purely being told what to do. It's written in their agreement. I have been through the 668 pages of the agreement and they are given financial bonuses based on the inline notation of the changes. However only a freedom of information request will allow us to obtain the actual financial figures. The CEO Charles Horton was brought in to do a similar job (albeit in a smaller scale) at connex. Peter wilkinson speech was an insight into the DFT's and governments plans. It also per toy aligns with the plan to rid the country of unions.
After many failed attempts with filed bills both in the House of Parliament and House of Lords, the conservatives see this as a perfect opportunity to kill of the unions. No staff = no members = no unions.

Secondly you have to appreciate the serve lack of staffing and staff moral within the company. For years the franchise has relied upon staff working rest days to cover the basic timetable. It's estimated the company is operating at 80% staffing levels. Hence you have the current problem. The company has indeed removed rest day working from striking staff members causing the problems you are experiencing. This will unfortunately never change to conserve profits. They would rather be under staffed and pay overtime when needed then have the required number staff and have some being 'spare' when staff sickness/holiday levels are low. I can also confirm that morale is at an all time low. The pure nastiness and bullying from senior management has been on a level never experienced before.
I hope this has cleared up some issues and hopefully opens the eyes of many of the travelling public.
I hope you are able to spread this to as many people as possible.
Kind regards

If all that is true, then wow. Just wow.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Effectively what he's saying is - GTR (i.e. Thameslink and SASTA) have no responsibility nor obligation to run a timetabled service; merely to collect revenues for the government.

Have I got that right...?

 

[Hotchilidog]

That's an understatement. Worth publishing on here I think...

I've just received this comment, which I reproduce here in its entirety: Hi David,
I have just seen your blog post on the current situation at southern rail and would like to clear up some confusion around the situation.i, as most of you commuters am extremely fed up of the company spun and lies and am looking for a platform to shed some light on he situation. I tried to comment but as a non gmail user I was unable to do so. You have my permission to post my email however if you chose to do so I want it posted in its entirety if that's ok. I am an employee of southern so would appreciate it if you would refrain from making my email address public.

I know the current situation is extremely infuriating but it needs to be looked at from two sides. firstly the current agreement between govia and the DFT.
This is in fact a management contract which differ's from every other agreement throughout the country. All other TOC's hold something called a franchise agreement. Everyone is different but essentially they r responsible for the day to day running of that network. They have specific requirements they have to meet but they generally make the decisions, however with govia's management agreement they have no control or make no decisions. All he terms, targets and and plans have been set out by the DFT. Govia are simply there to implement the changes.
This is unique and has occurred for one reason and one reason only. A test bed for the rest of the country.
In 2011 a report called the McNulty report was published sand set out a number of wide ranging proposals for cutting cost on he railways. Since then the DFT has been putting together a plan to 'streamline' costing on the railway. One of the major changes was to rid the network of guards. (Along with many other members of staff)
What we are seeing (along with arriva Wales and first scotrail) is the beginning of these changes. Many people have asked why MP's and media outlets have been so quite on the matter and as to why govia have no fear of losing the franchise. This is because they are purely the axemen. The DFT will not remove them as they want the company to be the face of the changes to avoid huge public objections aimed at the conservative government. The senior management are purely being told what to do. It's written in their agreement. I have been through the 668 pages of the agreement and they are given financial bonuses based on the inline notation of the changes. However only a freedom of information request will allow us to obtain the actual financial figures. The CEO Charles Horton was brought in to do a similar job (albeit in a smaller scale) at connex. Peter wilkinson speech was an insight into the DFT's and governments plans. It also per toy aligns with the plan to rid the country of unions.
After many failed attempts with filed bills both in the House of Parliament and House of Lords, the conservatives see this as a perfect opportunity to kill of the unions. No staff = no members = no unions.

Secondly you have to appreciate the serve lack of staffing and staff moral within the company. For years the franchise has relied upon staff working rest days to cover the basic timetable. It's estimated the company is operating at 80% staffing levels. Hence you have the current problem. The company has indeed removed rest day working from striking staff members causing the problems you are experiencing. This will unfortunately never change to conserve profits. They would rather be under staffed and pay overtime when needed then have the required number staff and have some being 'spare' when staff sickness/holiday levels are low. I can also confirm that morale is at an all time low. The pure nastiness and bullying from senior management has been on a level never experienced before.
I hope this has cleared up some issues and hopefully opens the eyes of many of the travelling public.
I hope you are able to spread this to as many people as possible.
Kind regards

If all that is true, then wow. Just wow.

It is absolutely f**king incredible that thousands of people's lived are being played with in such a manner. Despicable scum does not even come close to the contempt I am feeling for this group of vindictive and malicious pond life who think they can mess around with daily lives of people who seem to commit the crime of wanting to catch a train.

 

[Easy 10]

Effectively what he's saying is - GTR (i.e. Thameslink and SASTA) have no responsibility nor obligation to run a timetabled service; merely to collect revenues for the government.

Have I got that right...?

My reading of it is that its a test case by the government to see just how many cuts they can make on a rail service to "streamline" it and get away with it, before they find the level and can then roll it out across the rest of the country. Govia/Southern are being paid to be the public face to take all the flak, but they are safe in the knowledge that they're not going to lose their franchise as this is a state-sponsored "test case" they are carrying out for the Tories. And they're being paid bonuses for it.

Scandalous doesn't quite cover it does it.