Southern Rail STRIKE details

[1066familyman]

Do they indeed?

It's really not hard to see, and the evidence is there clear enough.

Unfortunately, your wider political views are blinding you.

 

[Hastings gull]

It's really not hard to see, and the evidence is there clear enough.

Unfortunately, your wider political views are blinding you.

Having witnessed earlier diatribes from you coming from a very definite left-wing perspective, you are the last person to be lecturing about views blinding anyone. I have often stated that I really do not have any axe to grind with regard to the dispute, and quite frankly cannot get to the bottom of it, because there is so much bluster. You talk of evidence; what evidence? Give me something in black and white which categorically shows that the government are stoking the while thing up, but please no more rubbish.

 

[Hastings gull]

i can answer that: "Since January 2011 there have been 10 serious incidents at the Passenger/Train Interface ... 80% of these incidents have involved services being operated in Driver Only Operation". thats 8 incidents on a DOO. only one fatality, on a non-DOO. source is RMT

personally i find it reassuring that only 8 incidents on the whole network in that time. reckon there are that many on the tube every year, at least it seems like it.

Thanks for that, but how are these figures arrived at? What percentage of the DOO and non DOO trains was used and which routes? What constitutes a serious incident? This seems to show that of the 9 total incidents, 8 are as a result of DOO, or rather happened with these trains.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Having witnessed earlier diatribes from you coming from a very definite left-wing perspective, you are the last person to be lecturing about views blinding anyone. I have often stated that I really do not have any axe to grind with regard to the dispute, and quite frankly cannot get to the bottom of it, because there is so much bluster. You talk of evidence; what evidence? Give me something in black and white which categorically shows that the government are stoking the while thing up, but please no more rubbish.

I've just done that. A direct quote from the dft.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Thanks for that, but how are these figures arrived at? What percentage of the DOO and non DOO trains was used and which routes? What constitutes a serious incident? This seems to show that of the 9 total incidents, 8 are as a result of DOO, or rather happened with these trains.

Plus it would be pertinent to know whether DOO was considered a significant factor in these 8 incidents? or considered avoidable under non-DOO conditions?

Investigative findings based on objective evidence etc.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

The members of unions are staff & have customers that help to pay their wages. They disrespect their customers by not doing their jobs. As a customer I no longer wish to pay for their services. Particularly as I no longer need to as they are no longer needed. I don't expect my fare to go down, but I do expect that without them my service will improve.

I've travelled at peak times for 8 years now & the service has never been this bad - caused by who - the union who have invoked strikes (without full support). & it's not just the 15 days with 5 more planned. They've been working too rule since April causing endless cancellations for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people.

Yes sack the few staff to save the many customers. I as a customer am v happy to voice my opinion while the Luddites stand grinning outside the station

Interesting the bit you say about working to rule,you seem to think it acceptable the employees should be FORCED to work overtime so that Southern do not have to employ more staff,also remember that the other rules that union members are working to are rules laid down by the railway inspectorate.
Thank goodness I don't work for a charlatan like you.
See you at the bottom.


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[mothy]

Everyday it's like the train to busan out there

 

[mothy]

Also. You've got to love #badsouthernrail

Too funny & spot on with their commentary

 

[1066familyman]

Having witnessed earlier diatribes from you coming from a very definite left-wing perspective, you are the last person to be lecturing about views blinding anyone. I have often stated that I really do not have any axe to grind with regard to the dispute, and quite frankly cannot get to the bottom of it, because there is so much bluster. You talk of evidence; what evidence? Give me something in black and white which categorically shows that the government are stoking the while thing up, but please no more rubbish.

I've just done that. A direct quote from the dft.

Nope, not enough evidence Deadly Danson.

A commuter group being set up and quickly raising enough money through crowdfunding to take legal action in a bid to get some transparency from the Government. Not enough.

I saw our MP personally at one of her surgeries to ask specifically about Southern's failed promise on the Unizone fare for Hastings. I also asked at what point her Government were going to hold Southern to account for the clear failure to deliver even the reduced service they have been allowed to operate. After all, her Government are signing off the payments. Guess how long it took her, after saying she wasn't happy with Southern either, to blame the unions

Peter Wilkinson. Conflict of interest anyone? Nah, not enough evidence.

Nope, this dispute has nothing to do with Government. It's just a simple trade dispute between a bolshie union and a company merely trying to run a decent service for it's customers.

 

[Springal]

Find myself in the situation where I may need to find new employment. Been on a London wage for 10 years now and luckily had good employers with a decent WFH policy but now worried what I'm going to have to contend with in the interview process when they work out I rely on Southern.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Find myself in the situation where I may need to find new employment. Been on a London wage for 10 years now and luckily had good employers with a decent WFH policy but now worried what I'm going to have to contend with in the interview process when they work out I rely on Southern.

People who rely on Southern to get them to work in London are slowly but surely become lepers in the eyes of employers in the capital. How on earth has it been allowed to come to this? Utterly shameful and a gross dereliction of duty by government.

 

[Hastings gull]

Nope, not enough evidence Deadly Danson.

A commuter group being set up and quickly raising enough money through crowdfunding to take legal action in a bid to get some transparency from the Government. Not enough.

I saw our MP personally at one of her surgeries to ask specifically about Southern's failed promise on the Unizone fare for Hastings. I also asked at what point her Government were going to hold Southern to account for the clear failure to deliver even the reduced service they have been allowed to operate. After all, her Government are signing off the payments. Guess how long it took her, after saying she wasn't happy with Southern either, to blame the unions

Peter Wilkinson. Conflict of interest anyone? Nah, not enough evidence.

Nope, this dispute has nothing to do with Government. It's just a simple trade dispute between a bolshie union and a company merely trying to run a decent service for it's customers.

The original question centered around the statement that the government manufactured the dispute. YOU told me that the evidence is easy to see and I asked you for something concrete. Agreed? You then talk about the aims of a pressure group, your disagreement with Amber Rudd as to who is responsible, and then finish with your own sarcastic comment about bolshie unions and this is supposed to be concrete evidence. It is really only what you want to believe - exactly as I thought. I am no expert, and for all I know you may be right, but don't give what you just have and say that this is concrete evidence.

 

[Hastings gull]

Interesting the bit you say about working to rule,you seem to think it acceptable the employees should be FORCED to work overtime so that Southern do not have to employ more staff,also remember that the other rules that union members are working to are rules laid down by the railway inspectorate.
Thank goodness I don't work for a charlatan like you.
See you at the bottom.

I am intrigued by this. Is this really the case that staff are forced to work overtime under some sort of threat, and if so, what threat is there? Surely this is illegal under employment law or whatever.So perhaps you could let me know. Southern Rail announced some measures a few weeks ago when there was that talk of £2000.00, and one of the things offered by Horton was the guarantee of overtime. I thought that this was strange -if you are saying that staff are forced to do it, why would he be offering this as an inducement, if he did not think that would have appeal? Something does not add up here.

 

[beorhthelm]

People who rely on Southern to get them to work in London are slowly but surely become lepers in the eyes of employers in the capital. How on earth has it been allowed to come to this? Utterly shameful and a gross dereliction of duty by government.

do you have something to substantiate that, or is it hyperbolic nonsense? in my time in London ive seen colleges with problems on C2C, whatever line goes into Paddington, the service into Marylebone and the tube, especially those on the Circle or Met line. employers are in the same boat and understand the problems with commuting in to London.

 

[Whitechapel]

My train left Goring Station at 22:45. Southern decided to cancel it at 22:40.

Brilliant, cheers lads.

 

[Guinness Boy]

do you have something to substantiate that, or is it hyperbolic nonsense? in my time in London ive seen colleges with problems on C2C, whatever line goes into Paddington, the service into Marylebone and the tube, especially those on the Circle or Met line. employers are in the same boat and understand the problems with commuting in to London.

Absolutely. My company instituted a work from home policy two years ago due to losing time to travel issues. However, having been based in the far East End and now in Canary Wharf, the staff affected used Southern, South Eastern, C2C, Docklands Lite, London Midland, the tube, the M25 and the Blackwall Tunnel. At the time we instituted the policy all equally as awful.

That's not a good thing though. It just shows the shocking level of investment and application of hard work in the travel infrastructure in the South East from successive governments of both colours, hamstrung by unions, shareholders and budget constraints. The current mess is simply a volcanic explosion of all that focussed on one franchise. And it is one franchise at the moment. Anecdotally and statistically GTR is currently the worst performing, It'll be someone else in four or five years time though.

 

[dazzer6666]

Absolutely. My company instituted a work from home policy two years ago due to losing time to travel issues. However, having been based in the far East End and now in Canary Wharf, the staff affected used Southern, South Eastern, C2C, Docklands Lite, London Midland, the tube, the M25 and the Blackwall Tunnel. At the time we instituted the policy all equally as awful.

That's not a good thing though. It just shows the shocking level of investment and application of hard work in the travel infrastructure in the South East from successive governments of both colours, hamstrung by unions, shareholders and budget constraints. The current mess is simply a volcanic explosion of all that focussed on one franchise. And it is one franchise at the moment. Anecdotally and statistically GTR is currently the worst performing, It'll be someone else in four or five years time though.

Spot on. Only benefit is as a Southern 'customer' I get a lot of sympathy from other commuters at the moment.

 

[Hastings gull]

Absolutely. My company instituted a work from home policy two years ago due to losing time to travel issues. However, having been based in the far East End and now in Canary Wharf, the staff affected used Southern, South Eastern, C2C, Docklands Lite, London Midland, the tube, the M25 and the Blackwall Tunnel. At the time we instituted the policy all equally as awful.

That's not a good thing though. It just shows the shocking level of investment and application of hard work in the travel infrastructure in the South East from successive governments of both colours, hamstrung by unions, shareholders and budget constraints. The current mess is simply a volcanic explosion of all that focussed on one franchise. And it is one franchise at the moment. Anecdotally and statistically GTR is currently the worst performing, It'll be someone else in four or five years time though.

I am sure that you are right in that this is the culmination of many factors, all equally to blame, though this is not what the politically committed want to hear. To be fair, on another thread about starting up the old line via Barcombe, the point was made that the lines converge at East Croydon and in such a heavily built-up area, it must be extremely difficult to extend. Tunnelling would presumably be incredibly expensive and disruptive to do?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I am sure that you are right in that this is the culmination of many factors, all equally to blame, though this is not what the politically committed want to hear. To be fair, on another thread about starting up the old line via Barcombe, the point was made that the lines converge at East Croydon and in such a heavily built-up area, it must be extremely difficult to extend. Tunnelling would presumably be incredibly expensive and disruptive to do?

BML2 is an interesting one. There's a compelling case for it every time there's a fatality or emergency engineering works on the single point of failure part of the main line. However, as you say, the work to do it would mess things up for the duration. The absolute balls up made of the London Bridge improvements (dangerous platforms and signage, signals that never worked) suggests things would get MUCH worse before they got any better with BML2. Plus it would need a private franchise to run it, Network Rail to design it and unionised labour to staff it. what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Arthur]

The only thing that's disgraceful is the way Southern treats its customers.

Disagree, the union is in a battle they know they can't win and by telling their members to accept Southern's offer is them admitting defeat. To keep striking is just a swipe at Southern and the tory government. The continued loser remains the end customer.

I have no problem with the union looking out for their members as thats what they are there to do. What I do have an issue with is the union continuing to tell us they are doing it for our benefit.