Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Springal]

Suggestions strike being called off at last minute, but emergency timetable already implemented and possibly unable to be reserved.

Must admit this is turning into a farce, a 5 day strike is a joke. 5 days of difficulty getting into London and doing a days work would put me in a very difficult position with any employer.

 

[Deadly Danson]

what concessions are they offering to talk about? as much as GTR isnt budging, so the position of the RMT is entrenched.

Hot off the press-seems reasonable to me:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/letter-to-mr-charles-horton-offering-to-suspend-action/

 

[beorhthelm]

Hot off the press-seems reasonable to me:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/letter-to-mr-charles-horton-offering-to-suspend-action/

yes it does. though as a passenger i'd put a caveat around point 3: that its permissible for a service to run without a conductor at times of significant network disruption, for the minimum necessary period. that's the problem being addressed, disruptions spread across the network and continue for the rest of the day due to staff displacement. sticking rigidly to point 3 means there's no net benefit of DOO.

let hope they can all see sense, because tens of thousands of people's lives going to be significantly disrupted next week otherwise.

 

[yxee]

Looking after their jobs. Who can blame them

 

[Deadly Danson]

yes it does. though as a passenger i'd put a caveat around point 3: that its permissible for a service to run without a conductor at times of significant network disruption, for the minimum necessary period. that's the problem being addressed, disruptions spread across the network and continue for the rest of the day due to staff displacement. sticking rigidly to point 3 means there's no net benefit of DOO.

let hope they can all see sense, because tens of thousands of people's lives going to be significantly disrupted next week otherwise.

To be honest that's one of the main cruxes of the dispute. If trains are allowed to go during disruption (which is everyday ) without a guard then it really won't take long before they are deemed surplus. Has happened everytime so far in cases such as these. The solution would be either to keep the guard and driver together all day or to employ sufficient guards to keep every service running.

 

[Arthur]

Hot off the press-seems reasonable to me:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/letter-to-mr-charles-horton-offering-to-suspend-action/

What have they compromised on?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Hot off the press-seems reasonable to me:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/letter-to-mr-charles-horton-offering-to-suspend-action/

[tweet]761520946314379265[/tweet]

 

[Deadly Danson]

What have they compromised on?

As far as i can see mainly the method of dispatch which they can discuss. If GTR really want to have more guards walking through trains (which we know is not their motive) then this allows them to do this. And if Scotrail can offer this then there is no reason that GTR can't.

 

[Bozza]

"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.

 

[Deadly Danson]

"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.

There really isn't much sickness at least at Brighton. I have no numbers but as far as I can see a few conductors have quit, there are quite a few now training to be drivers, a few have moved into management or training roles-actively encouraged by GTR and most are understandably doing less overtime.

 

[lost in london]

Isn't one issue that if conductors become fare enforcement bods, if they have to take someone off the train, the conductor will get off as well until the police turn up? If the conductor has to be on the train at all times, this presumably impacts their fare enforcement role, making the whole move pointless?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

There really isn't much sickness at least at Brighton. I have no numbers but as far as I can see a few conductors have quit, there are quite a few now training to be drivers, a few have moved into management or training roles-actively encouraged by GTR and most are understandably doing less overtime.

There is not as much sickness as Southern would like you to think,Southern is seriously,seriously under staffed,they're trying to run a railway with staff doing rest day working and overtime,as I understand it staff are now refusing to work rest days and do overtime,as is their right.

 

[Arthur]

As far as i can see mainly the method of dispatch which they can discuss. If GTR really want to have more guards walking through trains (which we know is not their motive) then this allows them to do this. And if Scotrail can offer this then there is no reason that GTR can't.

Thanks.

Are Scotrail also owned by the same parent company as Southern?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.

Probably more likely that southern will not accept this offer,they know they are seriously under staffed ,it's always been more convenient for the right wing press to blame "the nasty unions"

 

[The Albion Roar]

Thanks.

Are Scotrail also owned by the same parent company as Southern?

No. Southern and Thameslink are owned by the British/French company Govia (65% Go-Ahead, 35% Keolis).

Scotrail are owned by the Dutch company Abellio, who in turn are owned by Nederlandse Spoorwegen.

So when people talk of nationalising the railways, they are - in part. Scotrail is owned by the Dutch government.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is not as much sickness as Southern would like you to think,Southern is seriously,seriously under staffed,they're trying to run a railway with staff doing rest day working and overtime,as I understand it staff are now refusing to work rest days and do overtime,as is their right.

though we have established that the short staffing is a decades old practice across the whole industry (and beyond). i'm not clear whether or not the short staffing has increased in recent years.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

though we have established that the short staffing is a decades old practice across the whole industry (and beyond). i'm not clear whether or not the short staffing has increased in recent years.

One mans overtime is another mans job,a work to rule often gets managements snouts out of the trough.

 

[Arthur]

No. Southern and Thameslink are owned by the British/French company Govia.

Scotrail are owned by the Dutch company Abellio, who in turn are owned by Nederlandse Spoorwegen.

So when people talk of nationalising the railways, they are - in part. Scotrail is owned by the Dutch government.

Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.

Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?

 

[Ernest]

Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.

Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?

It could be changed at the flick of a switch, there is nothing to stop them if strikes are called off today running a 'normal' service next week, if they say they can't the question should be why not and explain fully why you can't

 

[The Albion Roar]

Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.

I don't know why it can't work down here. But I think the more pertinent question is about 'it won't work down here'.

Don't forget, Southern have said (public meeting, Brighton - a few weeks ago) that if they don't implement these changes (i.e. the introduction of DOO across the network), they are in breach of contract. To which the question would be 'breach of contract with whom...?'. The answer would have to be DfT.

It's not a major leap to see that this is being imposed from higher up than Southern.

The RMT's beef should be with the government. Not excusing Southern as they - in the form of Charles Horton - are a willing player, but they are basically the patsy for the government's will.

Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?

One would hope not, but let's face it, Southern neither have the will nor the obligation to adhere to passengers' wishes.