Southover Street Seagull
Well-known member
looney said:
Looney have you had a go on the political spectrum website? I would be interested to see what side of the spectrum you are on.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Socio-Political question
- Thread starter The Large One
- Start date
Looney have you had a go on the political spectrum website? I would be interested to see what side of the spectrum you are on.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
The Large One
Who's Next?
- Thread starter
- #82
As I said earlier, I only agree with 1 and 8. I disagree with 9 because I DO know why I loathe Daily Mail readers, and it has nothing to do with Ken Livingstone.
Isn't it bizarre that Ken ('Red Ken') Livingstone, a much-derided figure by the right-wing press during the 1980s, still appears to be the measuring standard for left-wing views, 20 years later?
Last edited:
Southover Street Seagull
Well-known member
I think a better descrpition some people on here could use instead of lefties is liberal minded. Josef Stalin was left wing, but did not give toss about ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union. He ordered the forced removal of hundreds of thousands of people from their homelands. Yet he was a communist and left wing!
Lord Bracknell
On fire
My grandad was a lefty and proud of it.
In the late 1920s, he was sacked from his skilled job as a toolmaker at Armstrong Whitworth in Newcastle on Tyne because of his political activity (in support of the Independent Labour Party). Blacklisted from getting other employment in the northeast (which was difficult to find at the time, even if you weren't seen as a political troublemaker), he had little option but to move south with his family, where he eventually found work as a school caretaker in Winchester.
His attitude to the Tories and to Labour Party centrists has kind of lingered on in my family (although my dad always warned me against getting too actively involved in politics, because "they sack troublemakers").
I might well have inherited my grandad's nose for politics. At any rate, I think I know which side smells nastiest.
In the late 1920s, he was sacked from his skilled job as a toolmaker at Armstrong Whitworth in Newcastle on Tyne because of his political activity (in support of the Independent Labour Party). Blacklisted from getting other employment in the northeast (which was difficult to find at the time, even if you weren't seen as a political troublemaker), he had little option but to move south with his family, where he eventually found work as a school caretaker in Winchester.
His attitude to the Tories and to Labour Party centrists has kind of lingered on in my family (although my dad always warned me against getting too actively involved in politics, because "they sack troublemakers").
I might well have inherited my grandad's nose for politics. At any rate, I think I know which side smells nastiest.
Last edited:
Franks Wild Years
New member
looney said:
Is gun control an issue in British society ? apart from the obvious need to remove them from the hands of criminals which I think both sides are keen to do.
The vote on blood sports was a free vote and members on both sides voted both yes and no.
The only difference IMO between the parties on Gay issues is that the Labour party is more open about such issues where as the Tories are happy to keep these things swept under the bed.
Thatcher signed the Mastricht Treaty.
Why is devolution a left wing philosophy ? Surely the recogcnition (sp) of nationalistic asperations is a right wing way of thinking. Surely Historicaly the left has been more about central control.
Railtrack was in a mess and was in desperate need of reorgonisation. If people invested in shares in what was once a nationalised buisness that seemed to be so much more 'loved' than any other privatised industry, which was under sold and was clearly under investing in order to please share holders, then they have no one but themselves to blame if that 'gamble' didn't pay off. Bringing it back under the wing of government control was also a very popular move which was based more on chasing poularity than political policy. Although I think it was the right thing to do and was cheifly done for the right reasons.
Both parties have a pro feminist agenda. Check out the women only candidate lists for Conservative candidates.
Both parties operate positive discrimination policies, check out Conservative candidate list.
With regards to your other points I either don't know enough to comment or just think your statement is crap.
The Large One
Who's Next?
- Thread starter
- #87
What do you mean 'Top Post'? Like nerr... Us 'lefties' disagree with 8 out of the 10 points. So who does it represent?Big G said:Top Post
Last edited:
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
As with all sterotypes no one is ever going to fit the profile completely, the fact that you agree with any of those points means that you are leaning towards a cirtain political view, it doesn't mean your about to chain yourself to any trees in the near future.The Large One said:
'Leftie' is just a stereotype the same as calling someone a 'tory boy'. It doesn't mean anything, it's just a name.
In conclusion, it's all a load of old bollocks.
So we've had nearly a day of this now, can you tell us what your point was in the first place and has it been proved?
Trufflehound
Re-enfranchised
The Boss said:
Looks like I only have partial leftie credientials then. Must try harder.
(1) Definitely. Quite apart from anything else, her government was responsible for bankrupting my father's hitherto well-run and profitable small business (one of the things they championed to get themselves elected, and then proceeded to abandon completely in the late 80s). It almost destroyed his life, and for this matter alone I will crack the champagne and dance a jig of joy when the old witch finally pops her clogs.
(2) Love is a bit strong. I RESPECT him for having principles, which is more than anyone in Westmister has.
Disagree with (3). That's just plain silly.
(4) Absolutely. And I derive no end of amusement from watching people's hysterically defensive and angry responses when I dare suggest that cars are unecessary.
(5) No, I go to real restaurants to show my disgust at unhealthy"junk food". And I don't smoke. So I'm clearly not a leftie.
(6) No, I never do that. I believe in everyone having the right to their own opinion. Even when they are wrong.
(7) Disagree, but a certain level of immigration is what drives the economy (and has driven it for many years).
(8) Well that should be obvious, surely? Any smart person could see that.
(9) I don't know any Daily Mail readers, so couldn't possibly comment.
(10) If the "real world" as you define it is the one driven by uncaring money-grabbing corporate multinationals who place profit margins over human dignity, then I'm very proud to be one of the silent majority who doesn't own a Porsche.
Last edited:
The Large One
Who's Next?
- Thread starter
- #90
OK.Billy the Fish said:
My main point, and I think it has been shown, is that those who use the term in a derogatory sense don't appear to know what values they are applying to a given person when they use it. So why do they use it?
- Aug 7, 2003
- 8,085
Remember that I said my "list" described a mate of mine, with tongue in cheek, who broadly considers himself to be a "leftie"
It certainly isn't meant to define a stereotype. I personally have no problem with people who have opinions different to mine, but do get annoyed by some who seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude, hence the throwaway remark that is guaranteed to wind them up.
Can't we discuss something less controversial like the Miners Strike?
It certainly isn't meant to define a stereotype. I personally have no problem with people who have opinions different to mine, but do get annoyed by some who seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude, hence the throwaway remark that is guaranteed to wind them up.
Can't we discuss something less controversial like the Miners Strike?
On the Left Wing
KIT NAPIER
Time to have printed a whole load of
On the Left Wing
T shirts!
On the Left Wing
T shirts!
readingstockport
New member
Trufflehound said:
I've yet to ever be shown any proof this story is anything other than a daily mail lie.
- Aug 7, 2003
- 8,085
I promise you that this happens in a nursery school in Hangleton. This is also the same nursery that gave my nephew a "sad face sticker" in his exercise book because he pretended to use a banana as a gun
he's just 3.If you want I will find out their telephone number so that you can ask them yourself.
BTW I do not read the Mail!
chip
Well-known member
The Large One said:
Hang on. You ask what some of us mean when we use the adjective lefty. A few people have then given lists of attributes that they associate with the use of that word or a definition to help you clarify its meaning when they use it. You then say that they don't appear to know what values they are applying when they use it. Is that because you disagree with their definitions/attributes? Perhaps, it would be helpful if you explained what you think lefty means?
Personaly, I associate it with a state of mind or attitude, rather than political leanings. I once climbed Mont Blanc and Aguille de Midi with the last convenor of the UK communist party. I would not describe him as a lefty though.
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
Franks Wild Years said:
Everyones nationalist asperations apart from Britains, unless its Britain the everyones apart from Englands.
Railtrack was in a mess and was in desperate need of reorgonisation. If people invested in shares in what was once a nationalised buisness that seemed to be so much more 'loved' than any other privatised industry, which was under sold and was clearly under investing in order to please share holders, then they have no one but themselves to blame if that 'gamble' didn't pay off. Bringing it back under the wing of government control was also a very popular move which was based more on chasing poularity than political policy. Although I think it was the right thing to do and was cheifly done for the right reasons.
So said stephen Byers, the high court didn't agree though with a damning verdict
Both parties have a pro feminist agenda. Check out the women only candidate lists for Conservative candidates.
Cameron may have the statist fluff but he doesn't show the appetite of stripping men of their rights or rigging the system to deny women the choice.
Both parties operate positive discrimination policies, check out Conservative candidate list.
So tories are the new left? Hardly likley to be a philosophical principle IF what you say is true, which I doubt..
With regards to your other points I either don't know enough to comment or just think your statement is crap
ditto bout your post.
The Large One
Who's Next?
- Thread starter
- #98
Only because you don't understand it.looney said:Funniest post i have read today.
The Large One
Who's Next?
- Thread starter
- #99
Largely correct.chip said:
To be honest, I am not sure I can. I used the term 'lefties' on myself because many of the values I believe in largely sit comfortably with so-called left-wing party political views. However, these views bear little resemblance to The Boss' quite amusing but largely irrelevant list of the 1980s' Sun newspaper-style views on left-wing beliefs.chip said:
In Britain, the 'right' has a modern day icon to whom they can turn for their inspiration and hope - Margaret Thatcher. The Conservative Party (including elements of the leadership team) are still looking over their shoulders at her influence on the party, and have yet to really shake her off. If anything, she has shaken them off - some of her supporters abandoned the party in favour of UKIP and The Referendum Party.
The 'left' in this country doesn't have an equivalent icon. And therein lies the rub. Because modern day politics covers such a vast range of issues, many don't generally believe in left or right-wing politics. Therefore, when Labour won a crushing victory in 1997, it was on a negative ticket. It wasn't Britain s much embracing centre-left politics as turning its back on the right, or 'traditional' politics. Labour certainly did not bring in left-wing politics in sense we understand it. So why use the phrase 'lefty'? It appears to have little value in modern day politics.
Most of society has progressed beyond party politics; the only people that haven't are politicians - Career Politicians. This kind of bears out your point on left and right being a state of mind, and I don't think people choose their own labels deliberately.
For instance, don't you tend to find listening to someone who is a very good political debator - say a retired cabinet minister, even with a different political perspective to one's own - far more interesting than a party politician whose strings are being pulled by the party mechanism and glorified ad men (spin doctors) who tell them what to say?
Point is, the next general election is not going to be fought on left or right wing politics, but on which personalities you can trust more than others, which is a total tragedy. That's not politics, that's cabaret.
Great post TLO. 
You could argue that the left's equivalent of Maggie Thatcher is Tony Benn - although even he has become the cabaret cult figure you deplore.
While you're right in what you say about the left/right divide being largely redundant in modern-day politics, given that the all the major parties espouse roughly the same policies, there are people who still count themselves on the left - in fact, the real tragedy of the current political system is that anyone on the left has been effectively disenfranchised.
But you're absolutely right to say that the values that a 'leftie' holds are changing all the time. And you're spot on to say that it's pleasurable to hear a good orator, regardless of the politics that he holds. They're largely fallen by the wayside, however, to be replaced by focus-group, image-consultant-driven drones spouting the sort of nonsense that Bozza highlighted in his jargon thread yesterday.
You could argue that the left's equivalent of Maggie Thatcher is Tony Benn - although even he has become the cabaret cult figure you deplore.
While you're right in what you say about the left/right divide being largely redundant in modern-day politics, given that the all the major parties espouse roughly the same policies, there are people who still count themselves on the left - in fact, the real tragedy of the current political system is that anyone on the left has been effectively disenfranchised.
But you're absolutely right to say that the values that a 'leftie' holds are changing all the time. And you're spot on to say that it's pleasurable to hear a good orator, regardless of the politics that he holds. They're largely fallen by the wayside, however, to be replaced by focus-group, image-consultant-driven drones spouting the sort of nonsense that Bozza highlighted in his jargon thread yesterday.