[Politics] Society

[razer]

A lot of sensible questions there, How do you propose funding the NHS though?

How do you fund everything that every Government, no matter what political persuasion, says is not affordable, constantly?

Simple, tax more, across the board and spend it wisely.

Stop talking bollix about Tory austerity and Labour overspending and just raise the money that's required. FFS it ain't rocket science.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That’s not a joke. I’m really a long way from being rich. I happen to have to work away a lot. This alone gives me rewards. I’m lucky in that respect but being someone who has lost their home due to events beyond my control I fully appreciate how quickly things can change.

Those with a little more maturity understood my post.

It was meant as a joke. Having re-read my post it was rather crap and very blunt and lacking in wit. I apologise.

 

[marlowe]

The point I was attempting to make was how we see and interact with these people as we go about our day. How long would it be before someone stops and aids a lost dog? Stops and helps an injured animal? Or helps a fellow human being?

The point you were attempting to make was an extremely valid one and furthermore very well made, but one which you chose to make on a discussion thread. As such you have to appreciate that people will inevitably enter that discussion looking at the points you made from their own perspective and express them likewise.

Discussions naturally evolve as they often do on other threads, sometimes drifting off into wildly different tangents from the subject of the original post, as we generally do not set parameters to what can and cannot be discussed.

However in this case the response in question actually did not diverge significantly from the subject of the original post and was very relevant to it. It is your prerogative to disagree with the point he made if that was indeed the case, but you surely cannot object to his right to express it when you choose to make your comments on a forum specifically designed for discussion and debate.

 

[marlowe]

It's not Political statement, but a society one. Please don't make it so.

I've also just noticed that the "Prefix" or subject category you chose for your thread was "Politics". So on that basis alone you have no cause to complain. You could have chosen "Miscellaneous".

 

[Bakero]

How do you fund everything that every Government, no matter what political persuasion, says is not affordable, constantly?

Simple, tax more, across the board and spend it wisely.

Stop talking bollix about Tory austerity and Labour overspending and just raise the money that's required. FFS it ain't rocket science.

You seem to have lost the thread of the conversation.

 

[Commander]

If I recall correctly you work in recruitment, or have you changed career? If you are still in recruitment, then it is not surprising frequent career changes are not so negative.

No I haven’t changed career. Frequent career changes would be a bloody nightmare for us because we work in one single niche market.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And the government pay the lot if you're unemployed?

edit: Is the 7% deducted automatically from your salary?

As I understand it the government pay for your health if you’re unemployed....it’s part of the unemployment benefits package.

And yes, the employee 7% is deducted automatically from your salary PAYE stylee. You will see three taxes on your pay-slip, income tax, solidarity tax (a further income tax which became payable after reunification to help pay for the burden of adding a new country to the nation) and health. Solidarity tax will soon be dropped though.

 

[Blue3]

I keep hearing this claim. It's utter nonsense! Go back a hundred years or two and I think you'll find the gap was a hell of a lot bigger.(/QUOTE]

I am sure you did not to really try and compare life pre and post the welfare reforms that brought pensions social services unemployment payments and health care none of which were available prior to these reforms.

We can only really compare years since the 1950s and when we do the gap between rich and poor was its smallest in the 1970s

 

[Commander]

I keep hearing this claim. It's utter nonsense! Go back a hundred years or two and I think you'll find the gap was a hell of a lot bigger.(/QUOTE]

I am sure you did not to really try and compare life pre and post the welfare reforms that brought pensions social services unemployment payments and health care none of which were available prior to these reforms.

We can only really compare years since the 1950s and when we do the gap between rich and poor was its smallest in the 1970s

Sorry, you'll have to go again. In English if poss.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am sure you did not to really try and compare life pre and post the welfare reforms that brought pensions social services unemployment payments and health care none of which were available prior to these reforms.

We can only really compare years since the 1950s and when we do the gap between rich and poor was its smallest in the 1970s

since you're aware of the changes, i wonder if you account for the transfers of wealth, provision of state services, welfare etc?

 

[stewart12]

I heard the London homeless get offered a few quid and train ticket to Brighton. The rich don’t want to see homeless folk outside there multimillion pound home in Belgravia.

having worked in homeless services for a number of years I can confirm that, aside from a period around the 2012 olympics, this isn't true

councils do attempt to return rough sleepers to their town of local connection but it certainly wasn't policy to give people a train ticket and send them on their way if they had no connection to where they were sending them to

 

[stewart12]

there are several factors to the rising homeless population in Brighton

-General rise in homelessness nationally since 2010
-It's position in the south of england meaning that it's warmer than, for example, the north-east or Scotland
-Excellent homeless services (mostly charitable) in comparison to most other towns in the UK
-Proximity to London so adds as a bit of an over-spill
-General reputation of the general public as being kinder to rough sleepers than elsewhere
-High property costs and lack of landlords willing to take tenants on benefits meaning getting people off the street and into accommodation can be harder than elsewhere
-Reputation as an LGBT+ friendly city leads to a high amount of vulnerable (mostly young male) LGBT+ people moving here as it's possibly safer than elsewhere

 

[Muzzy]

Sorry to add to this ever growing problem but things are surely only going to get worse.
With all the high streets likely to be ghost towns in the next 10/20 years there will be less jobs, more homelessness and nowhere for the beggars to beg from.
Society needs a sharp wake up call and soon.
I admit to being as guilty as most when it comes to not using High Street stores anymore, so any apology from me would be contradictory.
Sad times for far too many people, and all the government seem to care about is immigration and pollution. I’m sure the homeless couldn’t give a hoot about either of those issues all the while they are hungry and cold.

 

[portlock seagull]

Sorry to add to this ever growing problem but things are surely only going to get worse.
With all the high streets likely to be ghost towns in the next 10/20 years there will be less jobs, more homelessness and nowhere for the beggars to beg from.
Society needs a sharp wake up call and soon.
I admit to being as guilty as most when it comes to not using High Street stores anymore, so any apology from me would be contradictory.
Sad times for far too many people, and all the government seem to care about is immigration and pollution. I’m sure the homeless couldn’t give a hoot about either of those issues all the while they are hungry and cold.

Many immigrants are ‘the homeless’. Chances are if your arrive by Rib over the channel from Iran you’ve not got enough for a house deposit. Surely this makes the chances of helping existing homeless even smaller?

 

[Justice]

having worked in homeless services for a number of years I can confirm that, aside from a period around the 2012 olympics, this isn't true

councils do attempt to return rough sleepers to their town of local connection but it certainly wasn't policy to give people a train ticket and send them on their way if they had no connection to where they were sending them to

 

[Blue3]

since you're aware of the changes, i wonder if you account for the transfers of wealth, provision of state services, welfare etc?

Apologies I am not sure I follow are you referring to the transfer of estate value to the nation at the time of setting up the welfare state?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

There are many things that are imperfect within the human race and try as you might, it can't be fixed. Crime & poverty ate but two ...

For hundreds of years, there have been rich and poor and for hundreds of years, no political party has ever been able to fix the problem. Why?
Because it cannot be fixed ... there will always be the "haves" and the "have-nots" - as sure as eggs are eggs.
Even communist countries have their poor [usually more than capitalist variants?], so that doesn't work either.
If there genuinely was a solution, don't you think someone would have found it by now?

As already mentioned, with beggars in the street, I can't tell the genuine from the fake, so choose to ignore them all.
Same for charities, I don't know if 99p of my pound, or 25p, gets through to the cause - so I abstain.

 

[Sheebo]

In my job I have the need to visit many towns and cities, it has recently really hit me the increase in those in need. We see, hear and observe those around us as we go about our daily lives, many less fortunate than us. We look, sometimes with disdain, sometimes pity but nonetheless we see them. We don't know their stories, the reason for their situation, we may help, give them our change, perhaps these days they need a card reader so we can "tap" our guilt. However I'm amazed at the level of homelessness or those in dire need.

I was in Birmingham this week for two days. Firstly I traveled across London , witnessing the scramble for a discarded fag butt, the begging for a "cuppa". Then to Birmingham, the same. A one legged man in a wheelchair barely able to push himself along, a young girl who I noted from my last visit, same place, still weeping. Nationality, English, but does it matter, someones daughter, begging not for money but a beginning, a life, a future, help

I traveled down this evening to Bournemouth, an arduous journey thanks to the railway, some 5 hours crammed in a tube of like minded people, all wanting the end to their "hard" days work. I checked into my hotel, top floor, executive status, free bar. I walked out to find an eatery as the hotel had a function. I happened upon an elderly lady, a local clean well dressed, she asked for money for a coffee. I took the time to talk to her as I delved in my pocket, attempting,as we all do, not to bring too much change into our hand. I gave her £1.70 in change. She was fully conversant, telling me of her hardship. A deceased husband unknown to her with a debt, not to a bank, but though after years of working hard at the docks, he had a gambling debt, to the wrong sort. They still knocked the door of her flat. Demanding money, frightened she gave them her pension, it still goes on to this day. She goes out to stop the knocking, the fear. I ended up paying for a meal for her, a takeaway. did it make me feel good? No, it didn't but on reflection it made me write this.

We have those that are marching for climate change, those on Brexit, but very few on how, what or if we need to change how we want our society to be.

So all I can suggest and as I have done for a number of years, as we march forwards to the festive time, think of others and if you can help them, not to make you feel better but to make them feel better. Underneath that dirty duvet is a person.

Great post and I fully agree... but the ‘dirty duvet’ line has just made me think of something. Ok, this may not be the time or place but **** it...

After the defeat at Chelsea, I went back to Lewes eventually (hammered) and I shit you not in one of the doorways was a sleeping bag from a poor homeless person. Out the end of his sleeping bag was a pair of shoes and trousers round the ankles facing the ground . There was a clear up and down action. I literally thought I was seeing things, but no, others saw it too. Good lad.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

There are many things that are imperfect within the human race and try as you might, it can't be fixed. Crime & poverty ate but two ...

For hundreds of years, there have been rich and poor and for hundreds of years, no political party has ever been able to fix the problem. Why?
Because it cannot be fixed ... there will always be the "haves" and the "have-nots" - as sure as eggs are eggs.
Even communist countries have their poor [usually more than capitalist variants?], so that doesn't work either.
If there genuinely was a solution, don't you think someone would have found it by now?

As already mentioned, with beggars in the street, I can't tell the genuine from the fake, so choose to ignore them all.
Same for charities, I don't know if 99p of my pound, or 25p, gets through to the cause - so I abstain.

What would 'fixing' the problem be? Income inequality was much reduced in the 1960s and 1970s when top rates of tax were higher. Are you saying that unless you eradicate inequality at all there is no point in trying to address it at all?

As poverty is relative, a truly communist society would eradicate poverty, but this type of system is too difficult to implement and most of us are in agreement that the costs are too great.

Your nihilism when it comes to charity makes you sound like a solipsistic prick. You could easily find out how charities spend donation income if you cared. Clearly you don't

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

What would 'fixing' the problem be? Income inequality was much reduced in the 1960s and 1970s when top rates of tax were higher. Are you saying that unless you eradicate inequality at all there is no point in trying to address it at all?

income may have been more equal but overall we were poorer, and as we've become richer the lower end have been richer too. after rising in the 80s the general measures of the gap have gradudually declined, so we're slightly more equal since then. see FullFact. it would seem the inequality issue is not nearly as large a problem as some would have it.