[Politics] Society

[Hastings gull]

Vote Labour at this forthcoming General Election for change.

for the worse?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I believe it was settled a long time ago by one of your more beloved Prime Ministers that there is no such thing as 'society'. That there are individual men and women, and there are families, and no government can do anything except through people, and people look to themselves first…

She was WRONG.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Vote Labour at this forthcoming General Election for change.

Not where I live. Tactical voting.

 

[Hastings gull]

We always talk about this at work and most would be willing to reverse the recent tax cuts to fund the frontline services. Tax cuts improve nothing

Yes, this all seems very genuine, but in my experience there is a vast difference between those who say in public that they would be willing to be taxed more, and the reality when it comes down to losing money. Unless human nature has changed drastically these last few years, I would suggest that very few folk, when it comes down to it, would be prepared to pay more, unless forced to by government. It was only a month or so ago, that we heard that waiting lists for operations such as a hip or knee job were at awful levels -and the reason wasn't government cuts, as some on here would love to blame, but that surgeons were reluctant to work such hours that brought them to tax levels where they felt that it simply wasn't worth it financially. Yes, they are top earners anyway, but when you tax people in their view too much, that is what happens.

 

[The Clamp]

With your first predictable and simplistic contribution, that was exactly what you were trying to do - in total contrast to the OP whose aims seem to be far more altruistic.

I think it’s fairly well covered. I apologised for a blunt first post and the thread has moved on. Perhaps you should too.

 

[Grassman]

Homeless figures are the highest they have been for over 80 years. So yes, things are worse than in the 70’s.

Can I ask where you get those figures from?

 

[The Clamp]

Can I ask where you get those figures from?

I got that from a document at work. I think published by SIG but I’d have to double check.
I imagine it would be online somewhere.

 

[The Clamp]

It is easy to try and turn this into a Tory bashing thread. Not my intention but discussing homelessness and poverty in 2019 without mentioning the Conservative Party is akin to discussing how to put out a fire and not mentioning water.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

[/B]

Yes, this all seems very genuine, but in my experience there is a vast difference between those who say in public that they would be willing to be taxed more, and the reality when it comes down to losing money. Unless human nature has changed drastically these last few years, I would suggest that very few folk, when it comes down to it, would be prepared to pay more, unless forced to by government. It was only a month or so ago, that we heard that waiting lists for operations such as a hip or knee job were at awful levels -and the reason wasn't government cuts, as some on here would love to blame, but that surgeons were reluctant to work such hours that brought them to tax levels where they felt that it simply wasn't worth it financially. Yes, they are top earners anyway, but when you tax people in their view too much, that is what happens.

Firstly, speak for yourself. I would have no objection - and never would have had - to reasonable tax increases.

Secondly, Rather than paying doctors for additional hours, maybe we need more doctors capable of doing hip and knee operations...…… which is obviously a HUGE issue in its own right...…. and probably more nurses, and porters, and theatre staff, and everything else.

 

[beorhthelm]

She was WRONG.

presume you wouldnt disagree with this though (sentance following the famous quote):

the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I think it’s fairly well covered. I apologised for a blunt first post and the thread has moved on. Perhaps you should too.

And I accept that. I’m glad I have raised the debate and apart from HT whose comments in reality I care little about, putting the thought in the limelight may prick a few consciences.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Look at me I care, look at me I’m rich. Excellent work.

(joke)

That’s not a joke. I’m really a long way from being rich. I happen to have to work away a lot. This alone gives me rewards. I’m lucky in that respect but being someone who has lost their home due to events beyond my control I fully appreciate how quickly things can change.

Those with a little more maturity understood my post.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, this all seems very genuine, but in my experience there is a vast difference between those who say in public that they would be willing to be taxed more, and the reality when it comes down to losing money. Unless human nature has changed drastically these last few years, I would suggest that very few folk, when it comes down to it, would be prepared to pay more, unless forced to by government.

apparently about 200 people have made voluntary donations totalling a few million to tax man, since 2000. and so far no political party is offering a higher tax option.

 

[Pavilionaire]

[/B]

Yes, this all seems very genuine, but in my experience there is a vast difference between those who say in public that they would be willing to be taxed more, and the reality when it comes down to losing money. Unless human nature has changed drastically these last few years, I would suggest that very few folk, when it comes down to it, would be prepared to pay more, unless forced to by government. It was only a month or so ago, that we heard that waiting lists for operations such as a hip or knee job were at awful levels -and the reason wasn't government cuts, as some on here would love to blame, but that surgeons were reluctant to work such hours that brought them to tax levels where they felt that it simply wasn't worth it financially. Yes, they are top earners anyway, but when you tax people in their view too much, that is what happens.

I believe that people do care about the NHS enough to wear a tax rise IF the money is spent wisely and if it achieves results.

As for the consultants and their tax issues, it is tax policy that is at fault, the taper on pension contributions has produced a ludicrous outcome and must be scrapped.

 

[Baldseagull]

[/B]

Yes, this all seems very genuine, but in my experience there is a vast difference between those who say in public that they would be willing to be taxed more, and the reality when it comes down to losing money. Unless human nature has changed drastically these last few years, I would suggest that very few folk, when it comes down to it, would be prepared to pay more, unless forced to by government. It was only a month or so ago, that we heard that waiting lists for operations such as a hip or knee job were at awful levels -and the reason wasn't government cuts, as some on here would love to blame, but that surgeons were reluctant to work such hours that brought them to tax levels where they felt that it simply wasn't worth it financially. Yes, they are top earners anyway, but when you tax people in their view too much, that is what happens.

I think this needs a little more detail, and here is a link to an article giving some https://www.theguardian.com/society...tential-threat-as-senior-doctors-work-to-rule

This is not just paying a bit more tax making doing an extra shift less worthwhile, resulting in fewer being interested, the tax bill can be more than the extra pay received because of penalties imposed on putting too much money into a pension, which is unavoidable if you are a senior doctor and work too many extra shifts.

 

[Bozza]

I often think "There but for the grace of God..." when I see those living on the streets.

This article I read recently had me thinking the same: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/17/us/los-angeles-yale-graduate-homeless/index.html

If you've read the above, there's been a recent heart-warming update: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/08/...ex.html?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

presume you wouldnt disagree with this though (sentance following the famous quote):

No, I wouldn't disagree with that, but I don't think she ever succeeded in making or helping it happen…...

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

It's not Political statement, but a society one. Please don't make it so.

I'm afraid you do have to ask the question why it is so prevalent on the streets (and away from the streets)
I came out of a restaurant a while ago and in the doorway of the shop next door, sitting under a blanket, huddled up was a mother and I assume daughter, the older lady was about 40 and the daughter was about 18.
They looked perfectly fine, if they were in the restaurant itself you would not notice them, it was extraordinary, it was as if they had just stepped out of their house, they were not begging.
They do say you are 1 bill away from being homeless.

 

[The Clamp]

I was homeless for a short period of time after being ripped off by a con landlady. Too proud to ask for help from friends or family, with zero assistance from the state as I was in full time employment, single, male with no dependants I slept in St Anne’s Well and Hove Park for only four nights before asking a friend for a couch to sleep on.
The thought of doing that for any extended period of time with nobody to turn to fills me with dread.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

for the worse?

It can't get any worse.
Take your blinkers off and open your eyes man.
I expect a blind idiot to vote for an idiot.