[Football] So why has this team managed to do what no other England team has done in 55 years?

[Pavilionaire]

The 'easy route' thing is a tad lazy. The fact is once we'd made the Last 16 we were up against Germany, a side that had dismantled the holders Portugal a week earlier. Huge pressure on that game because going out in the last 16 is failure, whatever way you dice it up. And apart from that crucial Muller miss, we shut them down completely.

 

[Pavilionaire]

mings shined after the racist abuse that time. Almost undropable due to all this really.

Thats all it is

I rate Dunk better but its much of a much isnt it. Both similar levels ish so comes down to things like that. Neither are near Stones or Maguire level to really make it a controversial selection.

It's just PC crap that Southgate is pretty good at , which is another tick for some

Not only would I choose Dunk over Mings, I'd choose Webster over Mings.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I think these are all important factors:

1. The establishment of St George's Park in 2012 - from that moment on English football had a base at which all ages have come through. That gets younger players comfortable representing England.

2. Southgate has chosen almost exclusively from players that have come through England youth, U17, U19, U21 age groups, so are familiar with summer tournament football and how to look after themselves all year round.

3. Southgate has stuck with a core of players whom he trusts implicitly. The rest of the team see this. There are very few seasoned pros outside of the core group; the second string are mainly young and will be the in the 1st XI of the future. The exceptions are Coady and Mings but even Coady came through the ranks at England. I think Southgate likes Mings because he plays at Southgate's old club in his old position and has a left foot; better candidates like Dunk, Tarkowski and White did not play for England U17/U19/U21 or Villa.

4. At their clubs this England team have grown up playing alongside and against the world's best from an early age. They are also coached by some of the world's best coaches. There is less fear of the opposition.

It feels like there are less egos with this England setup. Yes they have egos of course, big egos some of them, but these appear to be left at their clubs, and not bought into the England setup. While it's clear we attach around Kane, it doesn't feel like the hopes of the nation are just pinned on 1 or 2 players, if Kane was out, I think we'd still look good with whoever came in. Gone have the days of trying to shoehorn in Gerrard / Lampard / Scholes into the team - Southgate is picking the best players for any given game or way of playing. While we have clear players that are getting regular starts, there is also a really healthy rotation of players and tactics.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

There has to be something more to it, because as you say Dunk appears to be levels above Mings as a defender.

I’ve recently wondered if it’s to do with the whole England DNA Southgate talks about. The character, the personality you bring to the squad and the causes you fight for. Maybe there’s something in Lewis’s character GS has seen that he doesn’t like. Shame for him.

Centreback is quite a competitive position and it will comedown to differences in character.
On the pitch (which should be all that matters) there is none better than Dunky.
Off the pitch, I think he comes across as a little bit lacking in confidence.

I remember when he was called up, seeing the footage of him joining up with the squad, he did look a little bit lost.
Totally understandable, but compared to they way White has seemed to thrive, in the group, I think it possibly prevented Dunk from standing out from the crowd.

 

[B-right-on]

Centreback is quite a competitive position and it will comedown to differences in character.
On the pitch (which should be all that matters) there is none better than Dunky.
Off the pitch, I think he comes across as a little bit lacking in confidence.

I remember when he was called up, seeing the footage of him joining up with the squad, he did look a little bit lost.
Totally understandable, but compared to they way White has seemed to thrive, in the group, I think it possibly prevented Dunk from standing out from the crowd.

I agree with your assessment of Dunky.

Ben has his mate Philips there which I'm sure has helped him settle. He looks genuinely thrilled to be there even if he's not in the 23.

 

[Baldrick]

It's all down to Southgate. There are no gigantic ego's or cliques in the squad, unlike in the past.

Must admit I admire Jack Grealish for attempting to control his feelings, even if he is a diving cheat . At least he will win a medal with England having dumped the ROI.

 

[Beach Hut]

Also known as devoid of personality.

What utter spurious crap, you know not a lot bar what you Google.

Check out, for instance Marcus Rashford

 

[Lethargic]

There are many reasons rather than 1, following Clive Woodward's mantra that small improvement across many areas achieves more improvement than focusing on one aspect .
And for once luck has been with us not against us.

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

 

[Swansman]

What utter spurious crap, you know not a lot bar what you Google.

Check out, for instance Marcus Rashford

Rashford is nice. Quite telling though that you had to dig down to the guy who played 70 minutes to find some personality...

They are all dullards. Not bad people, but just (publicly that is) extremely dull people, every single one of them.

 

[vagabond]

Rashford is nice. Quite telling though that you had to dig down to the guy who played 70 minutes to find some personality...

They are all dullards. Not bad people, but just (publicly that is) extremely dull people, every single one of them.

But who cares? We don’t pick players for England based on who has the most sparkling personality.

 

[Swansman]

But who cares? We don’t pick players for England based on who has the most sparkling personality.

Someone. But I agree it should not be a reason to pick players. However, when someone call them "genuine likeable" because they are (or rather appear) robotic... not buying into that. This is probably the most talented England generation in a long while but if I want to go to the pub with some England international, I'd pick one from any other era.

 

[vagabond]

Someone. But I agree it should not be a reason to pick players. However, when someone call them "genuine likeable" because they are (or rather appear) robotic... not buying into that. This is probably the most talented England generation in a long while but if I want to go to the pub with some England international, I'd pick one from any other era.

Oh ok. I think the reason many are saying this bunch are likeable is (partly) due to many of them being active in supporting and promoting causes. MBE Rashford, Sterling etc, and the whole taking the knee thing.

But yeah.. most of them don’t drink so you’d be better of going for a pint with one of the Euro 1996 squad. Maybe not Gazza though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Also known as devoid of personality.

Bollocks.

Which current international side is replete with the personality you find so lacking in the England squad?

Back in the good old days, of course, it was different...

 

[Icy Gull]

Someone. But I agree it should not be a reason to pick players. However, when someone call them "genuine likeable" because they are (or rather appear) robotic... not buying into that. This is probably the most talented England generation in a long while but if I want to go to the pub with some England international, I'd pick one from any other era.

He was much too flair to play for England very often but this is a player I guarantee you’d have loved an evening out with

https://youtu.be/W0z_arXZ8nM

 

[Stat Brother]

I got put on a NSC celebratie's ignore list because I claimed we had an easy route to the final. The thing is every time UEFA or FIFA add extra teams to a tournament it increases the likelihood of an easier route to the final for a team. It's possible to avoid the best teams in Europe and go all the way. In 1992 there were only EIGHT teams! Therefore you had 2 groups of death and if you were one of the 2 that qualified you faced a strong team in the next round. In 1996 there were 16 teams so the standard of opposition would have still been higher than in this Euros.

Sure but that still doesn't quite do it for me.
I'm not entirely sure [MENTION=5208]drew[/MENTION]'s post does much more than level the playing field either.

Believe me I'm not being an arse for the sake of it (this time!).
Nobody is posting anything I haven't already written, esp during the last W/C.

We are pretty much all through the looking glass here, and it feels weird.


Which is my point.

I don't care what [MENTION=206]Marshy[/MENTION] says if your answer to the thread question:-

"why now?"
Is
"Cos the games are easier", you are definitely cheapening the achievement.

W/C semi final backed up with Euro final, that doesn't just happen because it's been easier.

Not to England.
Not to English players.

Something has happened, something has changed, the players look different.
They look like Premier League players not startled rabbits wearing white.

There's a plan, an identity, and it's working.

This isn't the luck of the draw.

 

[Beach Hut]

Rashford is nice. Quite telling though that you had to dig down to the guy who played 70 minutes to find some personality...

They are all dullards. Not bad people, but just (publicly that is) extremely dull people, every single one of them.

They are not dullards like you who perceives themselves firstly a spokesperson for all BHAFC fans and now an expert on the England football team. And an interesting collector of Pizza boxes

 

[drew]

I believe there is some very selective thinking in some of this garbage about egos. You're not telling me the likes of Grealish or Walker, or even Pickford, don't have big egos.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

I believe there is some very selective thinking in some of this garbage about egos. You're not telling me the likes of Grealish or Walker, or even Pickford, don't have big egos.

I'm pretty sure anybody who reaches international level at any sport has an enormous ego and would be considered horribly over competitive in most contexts. One of the major parts of managing/coaching/captaining a side is getting all that pointing in the right direction.

 

[Swansman]

They are not dullards like you who perceives themselves firstly a spokesperson for all BHAFC fans and now an expert on the England football team. And an interesting collector of Pizza boxes

No they're an entirely different kind of dullards.. dull dullards.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Mason Mount gets top marks for this after the semi final on Wednesday, giving his shirt to a 10 year old girl who’d been cheering him on during the warm up: