[Football] So why has this team managed to do what no other England team has done in 55 years?

[Pavilionaire]

You make some good points but I can't get on board with the bits highlighted. Completely undermines everything Southgate's building to suggest he's picking a player because he played for one of his old clubs. Why on earth did he take so long to call up Grealish if he supposedly shows such favouritism towards Villa players?

There is something Southgate sees in Mings that leads him to believe he is a better player than Dunk, White and Tarkowski. I suspect most other Prem managers would choose Dunk over Mings because he is a more reliable defender, a better leader, he distributes the ball better and he scores more goals from set pieces. He has also shown he can form effective partnerships with all sorts - Greer, Goldson, Duffy, White, Webster have all worked well.

Did any of the big clubs show any interest in Mings when he became available at the end of his spell with Bournemouth It was widely reported Chelsea inquired about Dunk in 2018, White seems likely to join Arsenal while Tarkowski could easily end up at Leicester or Spurs.

The Mings thing doesn't make sense to me, unless you factor in some sort of personal element.

 

[DumLum]

Luck of the draw. Easiest route ever (along with WC 2018) and meeting Germany at their lowest point in many years.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

There is something Southgate sees in Mings that leads him to believe he is a better player than Dunk, White and Tarkowski.

Mings has a left foot. That is all I can think of. As well as he played in the early games - he is a liability.

 

[Stat Brother]

I know what your saying, and no international fixture is easy, but there is no denying our route has been as good as its likely to get, much like our world cup was.

I think we can play much better than we have so far, so that fills me with confidence.

But you've still not addressed the fact that previously it hasn't taken a good team to knock England out.

Crucially still is the simple fact this England team, in this tournament, has never looked like being knocked out.


Cheapen it all you want but that's very much your loss.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But you've still not addressed the fact that previously it hasn't taken a good team to knock England out.

Previously amongst all the charges laid against England teams was that our players were unable to retain possession. So we kept gifting it to the opposition who unsportingly didn't give it back. New we can - and that gives us confidence.

I think the above is important - but also now we have a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. Which is what I always wanted to see. We are used to seeing good players play rubbish in an England shirt. Whether that was down to non-possession, club cliques, manager favouritism or whatever I have no idea. But some of the previous generations of player (I am looking at you Rio) look a bit sheepish to me when the question of "why now" is raised.

 

[Beach Hut]

Previously the hatred between England manager / players and the press was so toxic many people were not onboard with success.

Now we have genuine likeable players, media trained and far more articulate in the media and a superb manager so now it is a win win situation

 

[e77]

We are now seeing the results of the FA and Premier League finally taking youth development seriously over the last decade or so which is producing a steady stream of suitable players. Also, with exceptions, players do seem to take some responsibility for their own development so you see the likes of Sancho and Bellingham going abroad while still quite young rather than possibly earn a bit more short term by staying in England and warming a bench.

Also Southgate picks the best team, not the best 11 players.

 

[vagabond]

In the last 10 minutes of extra time in a major semi final, not only did we have the lead but we were pushing it about and keeping the ball from the back. 50 or so consecutive passes all getting ole’s from the crowd.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve never seen an England side in my lifetime play with that confidence and swagger that deep in a tournament.

 

[raymondo]

Ukraine certainly have the fittest-women-picked-out-by-the-tv-cameras trophy in the bag? I know there is still one game to go but I don’t think Italy, and certainly not England, will win this now? Please congratulate the wife.

I will indeed

 

[Marshy]

But you've still not addressed the fact that previously it hasn't taken a good team to knock England out.

Crucially still is the simple fact this England team, in this tournament, has never looked like being knocked out.


Cheapen it all you want but that's very much your loss.

I have not cheapened anything. just stating facts, we have had an easier run to get to the final.

Im hoping this will help us come sunday night.

 

[vagabond]

There is something Southgate sees in Mings that leads him to believe he is a better player than Dunk, White and Tarkowski. I suspect most other Prem managers would choose Dunk over Mings because he is a more reliable defender, a better leader, he distributes the ball better and he scores more goals from set pieces. He has also shown he can form effective partnerships with all sorts - Greer, Goldson, Duffy, White, Webster have all worked well.

Did any of the big clubs show any interest in Mings when he became available at the end of his spell with Bournemouth It was widely reported Chelsea inquired about Dunk in 2018, White seems likely to join Arsenal while Tarkowski could easily end up at Leicester or Spurs.

The Mings thing doesn't make sense to me, unless you factor in some sort of personal element.

There has to be something more to it, because as you say Dunk appears to be levels above Mings as a defender.

I’ve recently wondered if it’s to do with the whole England DNA Southgate talks about. The character, the personality you bring to the squad and the causes you fight for. Maybe there’s something in Lewis’s character GS has seen that he doesn’t like. Shame for him.

 

[Stat Brother]

I have not cheapened anything. just stating facts, we have had an easier run to get to the final.

Im hoping this will help us come sunday night.

Ok so still the question I've asked of 'easy gamers' remains unanswered - fair enough.

 

[Marshy]

Ok so still the question I've asked of 'easy gamers' remains unanswered - fair enough.

you call it easy...I say "easier" there is no denying that, i never said they were not tough games, in fact i stated all International games are not easy.

Why are you manipulating my words... ? thats the real question

 

[Swansman]

Previously the hatred between England manager / players and the press was so toxic many people were not onboard with success.

Now we have genuine likeable players, media trained and far more articulate in the media and a superb manager so now it is a win win situation

Also known as devoid of personality.

 

[Napper]

There is something Southgate sees in Mings that leads him to believe he is a better player than Dunk, White and Tarkowski. I suspect most other Prem managers would choose Dunk over Mings because he is a more reliable defender, a better leader, he distributes the ball better and he scores more goals from set pieces. He has also shown he can form effective partnerships with all sorts - Greer, Goldson, Duffy, White, Webster have all worked well.

Did any of the big clubs show any interest in Mings when he became available at the end of his spell with Bournemouth It was widely reported Chelsea inquired about Dunk in 2018, White seems likely to join Arsenal while Tarkowski could easily end up at Leicester or Spurs.

The Mings thing doesn't make sense to me, unless you factor in some sort of personal element.

mings shined after the racist abuse that time. Almost undropable due to all this really.

Thats all it is

I rate Dunk better but its much of a much isnt it. Both similar levels ish so comes down to things like that. Neither are near Stones or Maguire level to really make it a controversial selection.

It's just PC crap that Southgate is pretty good at , which is another tick for some

 

[Stat Brother]

you call it easy...I say "easier" there is no denying that, i never said they were not tough games, in fact i stated all International games are not easy.

Why are you manipulating my words... ? thats the real question

I'm not.

My question is:-

'As the England team has gone out of many tournaments not winning easier games, what difference does it make that they have played easier games in this tournament'?


Your point would make complete sense if England were constantly coming up against Spain or Germany in the semi finals of every tournament, and losing.

That has rarely happened.

So, what difference does it make that they have played easier games in this tournament'?

 

[DumLum]

Ok so still the question I've asked of 'easy gamers' remains unanswered - fair enough.

I got put on a NSC celebratie's ignore list because I claimed we had an easy route to the final. The thing is every time UEFA or FIFA add extra teams to a tournament it increases the likelihood of an easier route to the final for a team. It's possible to avoid the best teams in Europe and go all the way. In 1992 there were only EIGHT teams! Therefore you had 2 groups of death and if you were one of the 2 that qualified you faced a strong team in the next round. In 1996 there were 16 teams so the standard of opposition would have still been higher than in this Euros.

 

[Brovion]

I got put on a NSC celebratie's ignore list because I claimed we had an easy route to the final. The thing is every time UEFA or FIFA add extra teams to a tournament it increases the likelihood of an easier route to the final for a team. It's possible to avoid the best teams in Europe and go all the way. In 1992 there were only EIGHT teams! Therefore you had 2 groups of death and if you were one of the 2 that qualified you faced a strong team in the next round. In 1996 there were 16 teams so the standard of opposition would have still been higher than in this Euros.

Yes that's true. However we've got to a semi-final and a final of two successive major tournaments, something that hasn't been achieved since 1966/68. That isn't all down to 'luck of the draw' or 'Nation X aren't as good as they used to be'. You have to acknowledge that some fundamentally good underlying changes have happened to all aspects of the English game.

 

[keaton]

There has to be something more to it, because as you say Dunk appears to be levels above Mings as a defender.

I’ve recently wondered if it’s to do with the whole England DNA Southgate talks about. The character, the personality you bring to the squad and the causes you fight for. Maybe there’s something in Lewis’s character GS has seen that he doesn’t like. Shame for him.

It's presumably in the England DNA to clothes line someone in a friendly rather than use it to practise actual defending

 

[drew]

But you've still not addressed the fact that previously it hasn't taken a good team to knock England out.

Crucially still is the simple fact this England team, in this tournament, has never looked like being knocked out.


Cheapen it all you want but that's very much your loss.

Not always but in the main it has. looking at world cups,
1986, Argentina, winners
1990, West Germany, winners.
1998, Argentina, semi finalists
2002, Brazil, Winners
2006, Portugal, on pens.
2010, Germany, semi finalist (finishing 3rd).
2014, an odd world cup where Spain, Italy, England and Portugal all failed to get out of their groups.
2018, Croatia, finalist.

And the Euros

2016, Iceland, surprise semi finalists
2012, Italy, finalists
2008, Carson's croatian catastrophe!!
2004, Portugal, finalists
2000, Romania in the group phase (but we finished above Germany!!)
1996, Germany, Winners
1992, Sweden in the group (but still finished above France!!)
1988, Didn't get out of the group, probably the worst performance.

So generally, we have been knocked out by good teams, probably only Iceland and Romania could be argued not to be.