So are Reading really a better project ?

[glasfryn]

True, but there are limits IMHO. Although some seem to only care about results.

football surely is a results game
I cannot think of one NICE manager who gets results

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

****ing hell. This has turned to a bitch slapping olympics. Look, GP went into a sulk because when he accepted the Reading job the club refused to walk away from the compo in the contract. Everything else that happened (which will never come out) is all the arse gas from the rotting vegetables of discontent. Do thy job, manager, or be suspended and then sacked.

 

[Icy Gull]

football surely is a results game
I cannot think of one NICE manager who gets results

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal.../news/poyet-i-would-manage-arsenal_65452.html

And I can' t think of another who would talk about managing 3 other clubs on the eve of one of his teams biggest games of the season (Arsenal) without having a single positive thing to say about the club he was actually managing.

I liked Gus, he was charismatic and fun. I really enjoyed the style of football he brought to the club but the fact that he continually kept telling anyone who would listen that he'd really rather be somewhere better means that I am 100% behind the board ( with the limited things we know) thinking that maybe he wasn't the man to take us to the next step. His post match semi final comments, and asking to leave before the Palace league game would suggest that he lost the desire to stay here and would be off before long. So even if the board did some maneuvering of their own to get shot of him I totally understand the reasoning, again based on the limited knowledge I have of what went on.

I ask myself why would the board of a club be so desperate to get rid of their most successful manger for decades and deduce that he must have done things that were, in their opinion, totally unacceptable for a figurehead of the club. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg though I accept.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal.../news/poyet-i-would-manage-arsenal_65452.html

And I can' t think of another who would talk about managing 3 other clubs on the eve of one of his teams biggest games of the season (Arsenal) without having a single positive thing to say about the club he was actually managing.

I liked Gus, he was charismatic and fun. I really enjoyed the style of football he brought to the club but the fact that he continually kept telling anyone who would listen that he'd really rather be somewhere better means that I am 100% behind the board ( with the limited things we know) thinking that maybe he wasn't the man to take us to the next step. His post match semi final comments, and asking to leave before the Palace league game would suggest that he lost the desire to stay here and would be off before long. So even if the board did some maneuvering of their own to get shot of him I totally understand the reasoning, again based on the limited knowledge I have of what went on.

I ask myself why would the board of a club be so desperate to get rid of their most successful manger for decades and deduce that he must have done things that were, in their opinion, totally unacceptable for a figurehead of the club. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg though I accept.

All too much " me, me, me " and not enough " us, us, us "
Its his charisma that gets him by. He is constantly selling himself. You talk to any neutral and they all know Gus Poyet. They don't know much about BHA but they sure as hell knew who the manager was. Lots of verbal diarrhoea mixed in with masses of charm.
I hear all these comments about his preparation and eating and sleeping football 24/7 but thats the norm for a football manager isn't it? Most fans never switch off. We are constantly thinking about the team and forthcoming games. Working out strategy and tactics. I've been like that for 45+ years!
Gus committed the cardinal sin in life of not being fully committed to the job in hand. For three and a half years, he had nurtured this squad to a position where they were ready for the big step up but at the critical moment he took his eye off the ball. He thought we had enough about us to get through, that we already had the upper hand. He didn't legislate for the street fighter in the other corner. The man who loves being an underdog. The man who will lead his troops into battle. The man who expects his players to shed every last drop of blood for the cause. The man with flexible tactics. Gus didn't prepare thoroughly enough for the second-leg v Palace and that is the unforgiveable legacy that he leaves behind. Forget that it was Palace. It would have been the same had it been Watford or Bolton or Forest or Leicester. That horrible, empty feeling that we should have done better.
Gus had a game-plan at BHA that was pretty successful for three and a half years but ultimately, you need flexibility in all plans. Is Gus a deep thinker about the game. I'm not convinced. He seems to pin all his hopes on one game-plan whatever the circumstances. When it works, his plan is terrific. Teams swept away with joyous abandon. When others are too cute and manage to stifle the plan, you get frustration and disappointment. We had a very good quality squad last season and our players were very rarely outplayed. Too many teams were able to anticipate our game-plan and react accordingly. It was noticeable how quickly teams tried to impose themselves on us from the start and straight after half-time. " Get in their faces, don't let them settle into their passing game "
Gus played the percentages with BHA. He knew his game-plan would work enough of the time to gain solid points. When it wasn't working so well, his caution would kick in and he'd be happy to settle for a point. Sticking to the same plan and gaining the maximum he could from it, without risking too much. The safety first approach rather than experiment and gamble. And ultimately, thats what cost us. Holloway knew what to expect. There were no surprises. Same old, same old.
TB knew he had a manager who wanted away. He knew he had a manager with a massive ego, who wanted his own way and who was clearly unsettled if he didn't get it. But, he would have put all this to one side had he seen his manager continue to approach his job in a professional manner, prepare properly and give his team the best possible chance to have one of the best days of their lives.
When he saw the contrary, the end was in sight.

 

[Acker79]

Just a reminder, that managers will answer lots of questions pre/post match and journalists/editors will decide what the story is about. Just because and article focuses on one answer doesn't mean it was all he talked about (works both ways, I.e. the argus may have focused on the only answer about the match, sports ole may have focused on the only question about future career plans)

 

[Icy Gull]

Just a reminder, that managers will answer lots of questions pre/post match and journalists/editors will decide what the story is about. Just because and article focuses on one answer doesn't mean it was all he talked about (works both ways, I.e. the argus may have focused on the only answer about the match, sports ole may have focused on the only question about future career plans)

Agreed but then you'd expect the manager to become wise enough to side step the loaded questions. I never once saw an interview where Gus said " I'm here to talk about BHA not Chelsea, Leeds ( that really stuck in my craw!!), Arsenal, Spurs etc etc. He always seemed more interested in talking about himself and his ambitions. If it was an occasional thing I could have been less of a "sensitive soul". I imagine TB became a bit sensitive in the end too given what he had supplied for Gus.

 

[Seagull73]

Or is it ill-informed idiots who have no appreciation for what he has done for the club. Yes, that's it.

I'm glad you're so certain, well done. I bet your 'friend' at the club is regretting the moment he ever opened his mouth to you. Clearly have no intention of keeping a confidence, that's how much you are to be trusted.

 

[Seagull73]

All too much " me, me, me " and not enough " us, us, us "
Its his charisma that gets him by. He is constantly selling himself. You talk to any neutral and they all know Gus Poyet. They don't know much about BHA but they sure as hell knew who the manager was. Lots of verbal diarrhoea mixed in with masses of charm.
I hear all these comments about his preparation and eating and sleeping football 24/7 but thats the norm for a football manager isn't it? Most fans never switch off. We are constantly thinking about the team and forthcoming games. Working out strategy and tactics. I've been like that for 45+ years!
Gus committed the cardinal sin in life of not being fully committed to the job in hand. For three and a half years, he had nurtured this squad to a position where they were ready for the big step up but at the critical moment he took his eye off the ball. He thought we had enough about us to get through, that we already had the upper hand. He didn't legislate for the street fighter in the other corner. The man who loves being an underdog. The man who will lead his troops into battle. The man who expects his players to shed every last drop of blood for the cause. The man with flexible tactics. Gus didn't prepare thoroughly enough for the second-leg v Palace and that is the unforgiveable legacy that he leaves behind. Forget that it was Palace. It would have been the same had it been Watford or Bolton or Forest or Leicester. That horrible, empty feeling that we should have done better.
Gus had a game-plan at BHA that was pretty successful for three and a half years but ultimately, you need flexibility in all plans. Is Gus a deep thinker about the game. I'm not convinced. He seems to pin all his hopes on one game-plan whatever the circumstances. When it works, his plan is terrific. Teams swept away with joyous abandon. When others are too cute and manage to stifle the plan, you get frustration and disappointment. We had a very good quality squad last season and our players were very rarely outplayed. Too many teams were able to anticipate our game-plan and react accordingly. It was noticeable how quickly teams tried to impose themselves on us from the start and straight after half-time. " Get in their faces, don't let them settle into their passing game "
Gus played the percentages with BHA. He knew his game-plan would work enough of the time to gain solid points. When it wasn't working so well, his caution would kick in and he'd be happy to settle for a point. Sticking to the same plan and gaining the maximum he could from it, without risking too much. The safety first approach rather than experiment and gamble. And ultimately, thats what cost us. Holloway knew what to expect. There were no surprises. Same old, same old.
TB knew he had a manager who wanted away. He knew he had a manager with a massive ego, who wanted his own way and who was clearly unsettled if he didn't get it. But, he would have put all this to one side had he seen his manager continue to approach his job in a professional manner, prepare properly and give his team the best possible chance to have one of the best days of their lives.
When he saw the contrary, the end was in sight.

About sums it up...

 

[B.W.]

Because i hadnt previously stooped to petty name calling

Fair enough.

 

[B.W.]

I'm glad you're so certain, well done. I bet your 'friend' at the club is regretting the moment he ever opened his mouth to you. Clearly have no intention of keeping a confidence, that's how much you are to be trusted.

What you seem to fail to understand is that I have kept the full detail to myself.

 

[glasfryn]

What you seem to fail to understand is that I have kept the full detail to myself.

unless you are going to tell us the full detail rather than keeping on saying you know but cannot tell us I would think it might be best you don't say anything

 

[symyjym]

About sums it up...

Interesting, so you do agree with BW now, and you do support the board's decision.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

What you seem to fail to understand is that I have kept the full detail to myself.

There are some who simply will not believe our charismatic former manager is at any fault until they see the evidence.

In some respects it would be best if the full charge list was made public at a court hearing.

Yet it is not in anyone's interest to go to court.

It is however in Gus' interest to SAY he is going to court. He can use this in his future job interviews, to bat away any awkward questions.

Once he gets a job he can drop the action, and for subsequent job applications he can then say he was going to contest it, but dropped the action to focus on his new club.

Career damage limitation I think.

I will no doubt get the tired accusation of posting the above opinion as fact, but, well, it is clearly an opinion.

 

[symyjym]

There are some who simply will not believe our charismatic former manager is at any fault until they see the evidence.

In some respects it would be best if the full charge list was made public at a court hearing.

Yet it is not in anyone's interest to go to court.

It is however in Gus' interest to SAY he is going to court. He can use this in his future job interviews, to bat away any awkward questions.

Once he gets a job he can drop the action, and for subsequent job applications he can then say he was going to contest it, but dropped the action to focus on his new club.

Career damage limitation I think.

I will no doubt get the tired accusation of posting the above opinion as fact, but, well, it is clearly an opinion.

Although his next employer will still want to know what the gross misconducts charges are. Then it is down to them to form an opinion on the seriousness of what went on.

 

[B.W.]

unless you are going to tell us the full detail rather than keeping on saying you know but cannot tell us I would think it might be best you don't say anything

Am I entitled to still post my opinion based on what I know? Is that OK with you?

 

[B.W.]

There are some who simply will not believe our charismatic former manager is at any fault until they see the evidence.

In some respects it would be best if the full charge list was made public at a court hearing.

Yet it is not in anyone's interest to go to court.

It is however in Gus' interest to SAY he is going to court. He can use this in his future job interviews, to bat away any awkward questions.

Once he gets a job he can drop the action, and for subsequent job applications he can then say he was going to contest it, but dropped the action to focus on his new club.

Career damage limitation I think.

I will no doubt get the tired accusation of posting the above opinion as fact, but, well, it is clearly an opinion.

Well at least it is an opinion with conjecture based on some logic. What scares me is Gus' bravado may take him where he should NOT go FOR HIS OWN SAKE, and that is to court.

 

[Creaky]

What you seem to fail to understand is that I have kept the full detail to myself.

Yet you have still broken the trust shown by anyone giving you information in confidence by stating publicly that you have been given that information.

 

[Icy Gull]

Yet you have still broken the trust shown by anyone giving you information in confidence by stating publicly that you have been given that information.

I don't agree with that all. Saying " I know what happened and I won't say but based on what I have been told", this is my opinion on the situation doesn't break any trust imo.

It's fricking annoying not to know but having divulged absolutely no info, that I am aware of, B.W is hardly breaking the trust, in fact it's exactly the opposite. He hasn't said who it has come from either. For all we know it could be TB himself

 

[B.W.]

Yet you have still broken the trust shown by anyone giving you information in confidence by stating publicly that you have been given that information.

Just not true.

 

[Seagull73]

Interesting, so you do agree with BW now, and you do support the board's decision.

*Sigh* For the last time, I couldn't give a shit about BW, my point with him was about his 'look at me' posts because of his 'senior source', not his opinion of Gus. And Mo was describing Gus character, which let's face it is not a secret, not the decision they came to or how it was handled. I don't support anybody's viewpoint because the facts are not known - by ANYBODY who posts on NSC. As has been said before, IF the facts come out, then I'll make my judgement.

Now then, do you understand that or shall I draw you picture?