[Politics] Small boats, smashing the criminal gangs and the UK job market

[Bozza]

An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​

​

In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​

​

France sees Channel migrant deaths as a problem of Britain's making

Many in France deeply resent the way their own lives have been transformed by a crisis they see as British-made.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?

 

[Machiavelli]

I doubt this thread will turn out too well but, yes, it is easier to get work in the UK without proper credentials than in other European countries. The UK has gone further down the deregulated 'flexible' labour market route.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

If one legitimate person signs up to Uber eats, anyone can then hope on their account and run the food from restaurant to house. There are probably other examples of this, but it's very hard to police. (Admittedly, I'm not sure how this can be worse in the UK than any other European country).

 

[beorhthelm]

if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.

 

[jcdenton08]

if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.

How will our creaking infrastructure handle that? The NHS is stretched to breaking point with resident UK citizens alone

 

[Machiavelli]

if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.

I often struggle with your logic but, as to your first question/statement, I think they are coming for work but often also for other complementary reasons such as asylum, sanctuary. What I don't think they're coming for is to take advantage of the UK's benefits system.
I agree with your second sentence. As to your third, all refugees and migrants should be processed according to (international and, within that, domestic) law swiftly -- which will have the effect of 'stop[ping] the boats'. But many politicians don't want this issue to go away because, if it does, then they'll have to focus on something else.

 

[Bakero]

I'm not sure about elsewhere in Europe but in Spain the unregulated labour market is huge.

 

[RandyWanger]

How many on here do cash in hand jobs or are willing to pay someone cash? It'll be similar, where every they're from, there will be a community of them already over here and they'll be happy to work and pay using cash.
It'll be a selling point for a CBDC

 

[cjd]

An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​

​

In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​

​

France sees Channel migrant deaths as a problem of Britain's making

Many in France deeply resent the way their own lives have been transformed by a crisis they see as British-made.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?

Most definitely easier than it is in France.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Very good article

I know that we weren't recording any arrivals or departures in the UK a few years back which was why, although we weren't in Schengen, Britain decided unilaterally to allow completely free movement by not recording anyone, (and nothing has been put in place since). As a result, we don't have any record of who is in the UK at any time. Interestingly, the biggest single reason for people living and working illegally in the UK is overstaying visas, not channel crossings.

All of this creates and supports an unregulated job market, which is then seen as a good reason to come to the UK if you can't get asylum (or an asylum case processed) or the aforementioned visas.

If we are really going to address this, I believe we will need ID cards and to record all comings and goings in the UK, something that has been raised many times by many people on NSC over the years. If people want to 'control our borders' it is, and always has been, the only solution

 

[nevergoagain]

I often struggle with your logic but, as to your first question/statement, I think they are coming for work but often also for other complementary reasons such as asylum, sanctuary. What I don't think they're coming for is to take advantage of the UK's benefits system.
I agree with your second sentence. As to your third, all refugees and migrants should be processed according to (international and, within that, domestic) law swiftly -- which will have the effect of 'stop[ping] the boats'. But many politicians don't want this issue to go away because, if it does, then they'll have to focus on something else.

On that 3rd point, when you get past the dickhead racists then the genuine underlying concern I think is not one of genuine asylum seekers but those who come for economic reasons with no documentation. For me, to allow these people in and then let loose on the streets when they could be anyone and with no idea of previous history is a serious risk. Processing quickly and removing will be great if it ever really happens but what to do with the Syrians/Afghans or any other country we can't actually return people to if they fail. Similarly and I think something that would placate the majority of people would be to deport ANY foreign national guilty of a certain level of crime (I'd personally say any crime but that's just me).

 

[Baldseagull]

An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​

​

In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​

​

France sees Channel migrant deaths as a problem of Britain's making

Many in France deeply resent the way their own lives have been transformed by a crisis they see as British-made.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?

Yes it is easier, and it's definitely a draw for some. Dodgy employers you see.

Illegal immigrant found cleaning Commons

www.telegraph.co.uk

Illegal immigrant found working in Commons - myHRdept.co.uk

The Times has revealed today that a woman from Sierra Leone has been working in the Palace of Westminster under a forged passport. With all employers facing ...

www.myhrdept.co.uk

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement. There's endless stories of restaurants, owned by 'those not from here', ignoring the requirement to prove you can work in the UK short of making every employer apply to a government department to check if a potential employee has the right to work here I'm not sure there is much that be can done.

It's a bit rich of a French Minister to make those comments as the French have exactly the same problem - mainly in the cities in the south.

 

[slimes]

I suggest you consider closing this thread

 

[CheeseRolls]

This is worth a listen on BBC Sounds unless you are one of those anti-BBC types in which case you won't be interested anyway.

To Catch A Scorpion

The dramatic hunt for one of Europe's most-wanted people smugglers, recorded as it unfolds. BBC journalist, Sue Mitchell, and ex-soldier and aid worker, Rob Lawrie, go on a search for a crime boss: a people smuggler on the run, whose codename is Scorpion. He is one of the central characters controlling the transport of migrants from the European mainland into the UK.

 

[Bakero]

I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement. There's endless stories of restaurants, owned by 'those not from here', ignoring the requirement to prove you can work in the UK short of making every employer apply to a government department to check if a potential employee has the right to work here I'm not sure there is much that be can done.

It's a bit rich of a French Minister to make those comments as the French have exactly the same problem - mainly in the cities in the south.

eg. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...a-illegal-work-visa-home-office-b1174261.html

 

[WATFORD zero]

I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

Freedom of speech is still alive, well and thriving

Hate speech is still illegal, being pissed isn't a great defence

Hope this helps

 

[Bakero]

I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

I trust no NSCer is up for inciting a riot or calling for attacks on foreigners.

 

[A1X]

I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement.

And a large part of that will be down to the hollowing out of the public sector institutions that would be expected to police these things by the last 14 years of austerity.

 

[BadFish]

I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

You are suggesting closing the thread to stop people expressing their ideas because hypothetically a poster might get drunk and engage in hate speech.

Then you are lamenting the passion of free speech... Despite calling for people's free speech to be limited... In the same post.