[Politics] Small boats, smashing the criminal gangs and the UK job market

[CheeseRolls]

This is also an often overlooked issue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cqqll47dvdyo

Cindy Ngamba has been here for 15 years, waiting for a visa. Her circumstances are really straightforward. Putting aside whether anyone agrees the grounds are suitable or not, surely it can't be that difficult to make a decision?

 

[Chicken Run]

If one legitimate person signs up to Uber eats, anyone can then hope on their account and run the food from restaurant to house. There are probably other examples of this, but it's very hard to police. (Admittedly, I'm not sure how this can be worse in the UK than any other European country).

Many of those that work on food delivery apps will tell the app company they will use a cycle to deliver the food to the customer and then use their car or ped thus avoiding the expense of courier insurance!! Many a time my app shows my food being delivered by cycle icon and a car shows up

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Very good article

I know that we weren't recording any arrivals or departures in the UK a few years back which was why, although we weren't in Schengen, we decided to allow completely free movement by not recording anyone, (and nothing has been put in place since). As a result, we don't have any record of who is in the UK at any time. Interestingly, the biggest single reason for people living and working illegally in the UK is overstaying visas, not channel crossings.

All of this creates an unregulated job market, which is then seen as a good reason to come to the UK if you can't get asylum or the aforementioned visas.

If we are really going to address this, I believe we will need ID cards and to record all comings and goings in the UK, something that has been raised many times by many people on NSC over the years. If people want to 'control our borders' it is, and always has been, the only solution

Totally agree.
The black economy is huge in this country. Plenty of people with no Nat Ins no. or Tax Code. No bank accounts and plenty of landlords happy to accept cash. A big slice of the community all operating under the radar.
I.D cards can be issued and they can be taken away.

 

[Baldseagull]

I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

Freedom of speech has always had limits, the limits may have moved a bit, but most people can express their feelings without saying anything illegal.

 

[Chicken Run]

This is also an often overlooked issue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cqqll47dvdyo

Cindy Ngamba has been here for 15 years, waiting for a visa. Her circumstances are really straightforward. Putting aside whether anyone agrees the grounds are suitable or not, surely it can't be that difficult to make a decision?

Lawyer’s getting in the way maybe?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

What an absolutely bizarre post.

Are you often in the habit of getting pissed at 9.30am on a Wednesday? If so the AA is probably a better bet than NSC for you.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Lawyer’s getting in the way maybe?

Well I doubt the last Government would have done this

Five years ago she was on the verge of being deported after attending what she thought was a routine signing-on process to let authorities know she was still in the country.
Ngamba was arrested, along with her brother Kennet, and sent from Manchester to a detention camp in London, before being released the following day.

without getting legal advice, so you may well be right about the last Government's Lawyers 'getting in the way'

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Many of those that work on food delivery apps will tell the app company they will use a cycle to deliver the food to the customer and then use their car or ped thus avoiding the expense of courier insurance!! Many a time my app shows my food being delivered by cycle icon and a car shows up

I have a fast food outlet and many of these ' food couriers ' have no grasp of our language. They display the order no. on their phone and that is it. If you ask them if they are busy you get a blank expression. They cannot deal with any issue in store.
They turn up to collect two orders at once, even if they are timed 10 mins apart, thus putting a lot of pressure on staff. They use all manner of vehicles and many don't even bother to take their helmets off, so you have no idea what they look like.
One driver collected an order and then sat across the road eating an ice-cream.

 

[BadFish]

I have a fast food outlet and many of these ' food couriers ' have no grasp of our language. They display the order no. on their phone and that is it. If you ask them if they are busy you get a blank expression. They cannot deal with any issue in store.
They turn up to collect two orders at once, even if they are timed 10 mins apart, thus putting a lot of pressure on staff. They use all manner of vehicles and many don't even bother to take their helmets off, so you have no idea what they look like.
One driver collected an order and then sat across the road eating an ice-cream.

Do you get to choose which company you use or is this the same across the board?

 

[rippleman]

This is also an often overlooked issue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cqqll47dvdyo

Cindy Ngamba has been here for 15 years, waiting for a visa. Her circumstances are really straightforward. Putting aside whether anyone agrees the grounds are suitable or not, surely it can't be that difficult to make a decision?

Not sure the "grounds" are in dispute. Cindy was born in Cameroon. She is gay. If she returns to Cameroon the best she can hope for is getting a long jail term. Just for being gay.

Absolute right to claim asylum here and it is a disgrace that she has not been granted citizenship and given a British passport.

Cameroon: Rising Violence Against LGBTI People

Security forces in Cameroon are failing to protect LGBT people from violent attacks and instead are arresting the victims.

www.hrw.org

#passportforcindy

 

[carlzeiss]

Stopped using takeaway food delivery services after one of their employees tried to kill me last year

 

[LamieRobertson]

Stopped using takeaway food delivery services after one of their employees tried to kill me last year

Yeah but apart from that why did you stop.

 

[LamieRobertson]

What an absolutely bizarre post.

Are you often in the habit of getting pissed at 9.30am on a Wednesday? If so the AA is probably a better bet than NSC for you.

So person posts something you don’t agree with and he must be pissed and should try AA ….hmm right o

 

[highflyer]

I am sure the poorly regulated job market is one part of the 'pull'. Along with multiple other factors, including many linked to our colonial past, our long history of being an open, tolerant society and also using immigration to our economic advantage. I am certain there are also multiple 'push' factors, including increasing access to the funding and information (via socal media) that increases the incentives, makes the journeys easier to organize and easier to contemplate. People have ALWAYS moved around. It's what humans do. It's a big part of how human societies have developed. But the world is changing quickly and more and more people having the option, and desire, to move is going to be part of that. Every migrant has their own story. Some will be bad people. Most will not. Like any other group of people (see also 'football supporters'). What the vast majority of those using small boats (a small minority of actual immigrants) do have in common is that they are desperate. And they are desperate for many reasons, all of which have their own validity.

We are lucky to be living in one of the most dynamic, successful, multi-cultural societies on earth. But you'd be naive to think that doesn't also come with some significant challenges.

My view is that, with regard to the media-hyped problem of people arriving in small boats, we are being lied to by all parties. They are all too scared to tell the truth, so they look for stop-gap slogans and stunts that will get them votes. 'Smashing the gangs' is about as likely to work as the Rwanda 'deterrent'. If there is the demand, there will be supply. And demand will only grow. In that respect the french chap is probably correct. I believe that the only way to 'stop the boats' would be to use such extreme methods that, as a civilized society, we would, quite rightly, find it abhorrent.

My personal view is that there is simply no easy answer, beyond all the dull stuff. Setting up 'safe routes'. Investing in better systems to process claims quickly and fairly. Investing in better support for integration. Ensuring that public services, housing etc is strong enough to cope. Working with other governments more cooperatively and less competitively. Basically we can't stop people heading here. We need to manage it (and we can) But nobody wants to say that. Any more than anyone wants to hear it.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Freedom of speech has always had limits, the limits may have moved a bit, but most people can express their feelings without saying anything illegal.

Maybe it’s the understanding of what is legal and what isn’t that seems to have been blurred

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How will our creaking infrastructure handle that? The NHS is stretched to breaking point with resident UK citizens alone

Offer them training to work in the NHS?

 

[beorhthelm]

I often struggle with your logic but, as to your first question/statement, I think they are coming for work but often also for other complementary reasons such as asylum, sanctuary. What I don't think they're coming for is to take advantage of the UK's benefits system.
I agree with your second sentence. As to your third, all refugees and migrants should be processed according to (international and, within that, domestic) law swiftly -- which will have the effect of 'stop[ping] the boats'. But many politicians don't want this issue to go away because, if it does, then they'll have to focus on something else.

it's simple logic, stop pretending it's all about asylum and accept most are economic migrants, they are making a choice of destination for their potential future prospects. one doesn't pay a smuggler thousands and risk life of that crossing just to be "safe", they want to work, they have to work, to pay back that debt and earn more for their future. offer simple entry process, into the country and registered properly. solves the gangs problem as there's no reason for them. rest of the problems, burden on housing, healthcare, etc. are the same however they arrive, should sort themselves out through general economic activity.

 

[happypig]

Similarly and I think something that would placate the majority of people would be to deport ANY foreign national guilty of a certain level of crime (I'd personally say any crime but that's just me).

Foreign criminals are deported after release if they've served 12 months or, if it's deemed a serious offence, any custodial sentence.

Deportation of foreign criminals post-conviction - Lamb Building

As of June 2023, there were at least 10,321 foreign nationals in prison with 6,393 enforced returns in 2023. The Secretary of State has the power to make an order […]

www.lambbuilding.co.uk

 

[LamieRobertson]

Offer them training to work in the NHS?

Meanwhile they can build a house to live in etc etc

 

[LamieRobertson]

it's simple logic, stop pretending it's all about asylum and accept most are economic migrants, they are making a choice of destination for their potential future prospects. one doesn't pay a smuggler thousands and risk life of that crossing just to be "safe", they want to work, they have to work, to pay back that debt and earn more for their future. offer simple entry process, into the country and registered properly. solves the gangs problem as there's no reason for them. rest of the problems, burden on housing, healthcare, etc. are the same however they arrive, should sort themselves out through general economic activity.

Agree with the first sentence…..but are you basically saying let anyone and everyone in, no matter the numbers