[Albion] Sky sports: Villa interested in Biss

[Coldeanseagull]

Villa have probably got a tenner or so left over from the sockboy sale, but Biss deserves to be playing in the champions/europa league, not mid premier league

 

[PeterT]

Yeah, I think they're on the move, no doubt that hiring Gerrard and signing Coutinho are big statements; the people running the club seem pretty shrewd and they've got the stadium, the fanbase, the history, the 'name' to back it up..

I'd rather see Villa in and around the top of the league than Chelsea or City. Maybe its also about time that a club could join that big 6 conversation without being bankrolled by a country or oligarch, and with Everton ****ing it up repeatedly maybe Villa can do it. And along with Leicester, gives the rest of us all some hope.

They have spent net northwards of £400m in the last few seasons, including the Greasy money. I believe they are second on the list of losses for all English clubs in the last decade (edit - see chart below, they are actually the club with MOST losses over that period), including all of the clubs that are perceived to be rich and spending loads. Chucking money at it, getting nowhere. Now they have 2 billionaire owners so it will be more of the same and some. How the **** is that not being bankrolled or give the rest of us hope? Leicester? Fair enough but Villa? A nice sentiment but your facts couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[PeterT]

Here you go. If we lose nearly £500m over 10 years, it gives us all hope that we can obtain mid-table mediocrity!

 

[PeterT]

Here are 2 more graphs for you, just to dispel the myth that Villa’s path to glory gives us all hope. Incredible really, they are being bankrolled as much as anyone, yet some seem to think they are managed in some beautiful way to give us all hope that the little guy can still win. They are actually the very worst example - spent a fortune to placate glory hunting wannabe fans and get nowhere, with no trophy for more than 25 years, they are the exact opposite of how a club should be run.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Villa might not being being bankrolled by an oligarch or funded by a state but they aren't exactly an also run in the money stakes. Owned by private equity investor from the USA and with something like the 4th highest net spend in the PL over the last 5 seasons (would probably be higher placed if you considered only the 3 seasons they've been in the PL). It's not quite the fairy tale some might perceive it to be.

They have spent net northwards of £400m in the last few seasons, including the Greasy money. I believe they are second on the list of losses for all English clubs in the last decade (edit - see chart below, they are actually the club with MOST losses over that period), including all of the clubs that are perceived to be rich and spending loads. Chucking money at it, getting nowhere. Now they have 2 billionaire owners so it will be more of the same and some. How the **** is that not being bankrolled or give the rest of us hope? Leicester? Fair enough but Villa? A nice sentiment but your facts couldn’t be more wrong.

No one is saying they are a fairy tale, they are a serious club. Just like Leicester, just like Brighton, they were recently in the championship, have billionaire owners, are spending big (4th biggest net spend over past 5 years, Brighton 10th, Leicester 12th); are reporting large losses (Villa biggest loss, Brighton 6th biggest, Leicester also reporting loss) and are moving from relegation battles to challenging higher up the table.

Unlike Brighton and Leicester, and to argue against my 'give the rest of us hope' comment, I think Villa have the peripherals to take a bigger leap - the profile in the English game, the history, stadium, fanbase, whatever - the peripherals that might be able to attract bigger investment and hence get better players to make the biggest jump of all into the top echelon. In that sense they are similar to Everton, another club outside the big 6, spending big to try and bridge the gap to the oligarch clubs but who have been f*cking it up. We'll see.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Where has it been confirmed anywhere that Villa are showing interest, other than from the chuckle brothers Dharmesh & Kaveh? They NEED people to regurgitate their bollocks scoops to validate them. Also, as you and others have pointed out, while Biss has been released under investigation what are the chances of him being transferred for up to £50m - Brighton's new go to price for the "Big Boys" to prize away international-class playing assets? YB is still a person of interest to Sussex police for an alleged very serious offence. He'll go nowhere until that investigation plays out. It's double bollocks.

Oh I think the testing the waters is genuine, or putting it out there that he's the kind of player they'd like to sign, they'll never pay £50m. I imagine they are hoping we would take a cut price with the court case and the contract running down, that we would be concerned because of that investigation.

Whatever, its precisely the kind of transfer Villa should be trying to make, if they do indeed have serious money to spend as others are pointing out. Sign the best players from the teams around you in the table, goes a long way to lifting you above them all. Its what City did back in the day and its what I expect Newcastle to do.

 

[PeterT]

No one is saying they are a fairy tale, they are a serious club. Just like Leicester, just like Brighton, they were recently in the championship, have billionaire owners, are spending big (4th biggest net spend over past 5 years, Brighton 10th, Leicester 12th); are reporting large losses (Villa biggest loss, Brighton 6th biggest, Leicester also reporting loss) and are moving from relegation battles to challenging higher up the table.

Unlike Brighton and Leicester, and to argue against my 'give the rest of us hope' comment, I think Villa have the peripherals to take a bigger leap - the profile in the English game, the history, stadium, fanbase, whatever - the peripherals that might be able to attract bigger investment and hence get better players to make the biggest jump of all into the top echelon. In that sense they are similar to Everton, another club outside the big 6, spending big to try and bridge the gap to the oligarch clubs but who have been f*cking it up. We'll see.

That gap from the mid tier clubs to the top few is the hardest to bridge, it seems. Wolves owners Fosun, for example, have realised that it takes the sort of money they don’t have or want to spend. Villa’s spending, including funding a gamble on promotion, left them days away from administration when 2 billionaire owners rocked up and in that sense they hit the jackpot. I do agree that they now have the potential to attempt to push on to that next phase, their fans only ever believe that’s where they belong even though they have been nowhere near that level for 40 years. Personally I hope they really balls it up and waste a fortune, but let’s see what happens! I think they are planning to rebuild the North Stand and take capacity above 50,000 and that would help make them serious contenders.

 

[HantsSeagull]

That gap from the mid tier clubs to the top few is the hardest to bridge, it seems. Wolves owners Fosun, for example, have realised that it takes the sort of money they don’t have or want to spend. Villa’s spending, including funding a gamble on promotion, left them days away from administration when 2 billionaire owners rocked up and in that sense they hit the jackpot. I do agree that they now have the potential to attempt to push on to that next phase, their fans only ever believe that’s where they belong even though they have been nowhere near that level for 40 years. Personally I hope they really balls it up and waste a fortune, but let’s see what happens! I think they are planning to rebuild the North Stand and take capacity above 50,000 and that would help make them serious contenders.

How would extra 10k capacity make them serious contenders? Genuine question. No club really makes significant money from bums on seats these days. Or am i missing something?

 

[PeterT]

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How would extra 10k capacity make them serious contenders? Genuine question. No club really makes significant money from bums on seats these days. Or am i missing something?

It’s a fair point, but I think having 50k fans compared to 40k does add something to the size of the club for the long term and it’s only what others like Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham have said when upscaling their grounds. But does it in itself guarantee any of that? Absolutely not, as Sunderland fans would probably tell you!

 

[lizard]

It’s a fair point, but I think having 50k fans compared to 40k does add something to the size of the club for the long term and it’s only what others like Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham have said when upscaling their grounds. But does it in itself guarantee any of that? Absolutely not, as Sunderland fans would probably tell you!

Makes a massive difference when they all boo their own players...

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

That gap from the mid tier clubs to the top few is the hardest to bridge, it seems. Wolves owners Fosun, for example, have realised that it takes the sort of money they don’t have or want to spend. Villa’s spending, including funding a gamble on promotion, left them days away from administration when 2 billionaire owners rocked up and in that sense they hit the jackpot. I do agree that they now have the potential to attempt to push on to that next phase, their fans only ever believe that’s where they belong even though they have been nowhere near that level for 40 years. Personally I hope they really balls it up and waste a fortune, but let’s see what happens! I think they are planning to rebuild the North Stand and take capacity above 50,000 and that would help make them serious contenders.

I think that gamble they took, days away from administration, actually speaks to the size of the club - if we took it we'd probably go bust, many other teams would, but Villa had two billionaire owners turn up. Clubs like Villa can pay bigger wages, take the risk of relegation and trouble because they're confident they're big enough to rebound - we can't take the risk because we don't have the same safety net.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Looks like Digne is going there, they're putting together a decent side.

 

[PeterT]

I think that gamble they took, days away from administration, actually speaks to the size of the club - if we took it we'd probably go bust, many other teams would, but Villa had two billionaire owners turn up. Clubs like Villa can pay bigger wages, take the risk of relegation and trouble because they're confident they're big enough to rebound - we can't take the risk because we don't have the same safety net.

If by that you mean they were getting desperate because their wannabe fans think they are one of Europe’s top teams and playing Barnsley or Preston wasn’t acceptable then I agree with you.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

If by that you mean they were getting desperate because their wannabe fans think they are one of Europe’s top teams and playing Barnsley or Preston wasn’t acceptable then I agree with you.

But its true of them, of Newcastle, of Leeds, of West Ham - they believe they belong at the top, to be challenging with the huge clubs - so they spend, spend, spend to try and keep up - but they can't. It inevitably ****s up, they get relegated - but because of who they are, their names and history and great big fanbase, back they come, and they come spending and get back to top ten. And round and round the merry-go-round goes.

Meanwhile the really well-run clubs take their places in the premier league, but because they're really well-run, they never take the risks to make that top ten stick consistently and if they overdo it and get into financial difficulty and get relegated, they're back in the also-rans with Charlton, Bolton, Portsmouth etc with no real prospect of making it back until they become well-run again. And being 'well-run' for ever gets a bit dull I imagine.

Just facts of life really. Still, clearly unlike you I don't mind if Villa can buck a trend and stick up there, but history says they won't. It would be more interesting than Newcastle just buying their way there. And more palatable to me than West Ham doing it.

 

[PeterT]

But its true of them, of Newcastle, of Leeds, of West Ham - they believe they belong at the top, to be challenging with the huge clubs - so they spend, spend, spend to try and keep up - but they can't. It inevitably ****s up, they get relegated - but because of who they are, their names and history and great big fanbase, back they come, and they come spending and get back to top ten. And round and round the merry-go-round goes.

Meanwhile the really well-run clubs take their places in the premier league, but because they're really well-run, they never take the risks to make that top ten stick consistently and if they overdo it and get into financial difficulty and get relegated, they're back in the also-rans with Charlton, Bolton, Portsmouth etc with no real prospect of making it back until they become well-run again. And being 'well-run' for ever gets a bit dull I imagine.

Just facts of life really. Still, clearly unlike you I don't mind if Villa can buck a trend and stick up there, but history says they won't. It would be more interesting than Newcastle just buying their way there. And more palatable to me than West Ham doing it.

That’s the bit where we disagree. You think that what Newcastle will now try and do is buy their way to the top, but despite the facts don’t see that Villa have been trying to do just that more than almost anyone for at least 10 years and spectacularly failed! For some reason they don’t get tarred with the same brush, even though the facts suggest otherwise. They must have a good PR department somewhere!

 

[The Fits]

No chance Villa are going down for a very long time. More chance of regular European football IMHO, especially with Gerrard there.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

No chance Villa are going down for a very long time. More chance of regular European football IMHO, especially with Gerrard there.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

In the past decade or so we've been very good at tying up contracts well ahead of this point, so maybe what we're seeing is part of a sea-change in the way players are viewing their contracts and future options. It used to be that players wouldn't take the risk of finding themselves out of contract when a serious injury struck, but they are becoming so rich it is less of a risk than in previous generations (and in lower divisions) - and the rewards of negotiating big salaries and signing-on fees when there is no transfer fee involved are becoming ever greater.

Meanwhile the wealth disparity between Premier league clubs and foreign clubs has become massive, with perhaps only PSG, a few German clubs and maybe a couple of others able to compete with the English top 6 on transfer fees. European clubs are running out of money. So players are letting their contracts run down to get more of a choice about where to go, and to get that move to Spain or Italy. David Alaba to Madrid from Bayern is a case in point; Rudiger is clearly looking at a big move on a free, Pogba, Mbappe may follow.

Interesting discussion on the Monday night club the other day about precisely this, from 43 minutes here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bf5ct2

None of the four Brighton players we are talking about are British - they may find playing anywhere in the continent attractive, perhaps more so - maybe a country where they can speak their first language, with better weather and worse defenders, but how can they get that dream move if they are tied to a big contract in England and none of these overseas clubs can meet our demands? Running it down might be the only way.

Running down your contact and moving "on a free" can mean a very substantial signing on fee for the player. Potentially a far more attractive option for the player than signing an contact extension (where the selling club take that benefit) for the relatively small benefit of a salary hike.

 

[Live by the sea]

That is a big issue in Bissouma’s case . If he were to go on a free to a top 6 club here or a big club in Europe , he could conceivably get a £5 - 10 million signing on fee !

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Running down your contact and moving "on a free" can mean a very substantial signing on fee for the player. Potentially a far more attractive option for the player than signing an contact extension (where the selling club take that benefit) for the relatively small benefit of a salary hike.

Absolutely. And there's more clubs that will be able to compete over signing on fees. Clubs like City and United can pay a big transfer fee AND a big signing on fee, but with the transfer fee out of the way there can be a lot more clubs involved. And like I say, for many going to a Madrid or a Milan can be more enticing than heading to Manchester.

Plus the case of Zaha must be cautionary to many players, trapped at a mid table club throughout his best earning years. Nice salary but no glory and no big signing on fees.