[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[clapham_gull]

Bombshell mega-poll predicts Tories will lose three-quarters of seats in wipeout

The MRP poll that surveyed 18,000 people projects Rishi Sunak will be left with just 80 MPs, which would be the party’s worst result in history and see 18 Cabinet ministers ousted

www.mirror.co.uk

Do stories like this sometimes bring on the fear factor and mobilise the Tory Vote?

Like the Sun front page of 1992?

No, firstly the world has changed and most voters haven't picked up a newspaper in years.

Secondly as for mobilised Tories, my local ones refuse to talk about "national" issues and only local ones.

The Tories are more split that Kinnock's party, I doubt they could mobilise anything with a large section of party wanting the leader out.

 

[Rdodge30]

There will be more to it, the antisemitic attitudes of individuals within the party. And yes it definitely will be the press forcing the issue no doubt. Not that it should need forcing.

It’s unfortunate that there are question marks over the handling of the internal investigation into the £28b leak but I find it heartening that Sue Gray was apparently furious, she is by all accounts both capable and formidable. Almost certainly in constant contact with Tony Blair she will hopefully smooth the path to Downing Street and no doubt there will be roles and jobs for several from the Blair Institute to hopefully bring some professionalism to the table.


This week has been a blip and will have little impact on the election result - but it’s time for the top table to give their heads a wobble

 

[Baldseagull]

I agree it’s not antisemitic but not ‘clearly’.

The problem with these conspiracy theories is that when you plunge your arm into the toilet of their origin, you tend to hit antisemitism when you reach the u-bend. The American ‘deep state’ is apparently a group of Jews, the people who control the world economy are apparently a group of Jews. The vast majority of conspiracy theories are only one click away from an antisemitism trope. Oddly though, most originate from the far right and fascists rather than Muslims.

In the case of Mr Ali, he either has very poor judgment in not recognising the political toxicity of these theories, or he is as-thick-as-f***ing-dogshit for believing such a ridiculous story or he is antisemitic. It’s clear to me that he ticks the first two boxes and is unfit for office. He also leaves himself open to accusations of the third from those whom know that Starmer and the Labour Party are going to cost them a lot of money. People like Lord Rothermere.

Perhaps I could have phrased it better, I was not trying to say it clearly wasn't antisemitic I was trying to say it is not clear that it was. I hope that has cleared that up.

 

[Lenny Rider]

No, firstly the world has changed and most voters haven't picked up a newspaper in years.

Secondly as for mobilised Tories, my local ones refuse to talk about "national" issues and only local ones.

The Tories are more split that Kinnock's party, I doubt they could mobilise anything with a large section of party wanting the leader out.

But you could almost argue that they don’t need newspaper front covers any more just send out their ‘message’ via social media.

It’s the year for elections, aside from us, America and Germany both have major polls, without wishing the year away it will be interesting to see where we are in 12 months time?

There’s obviously a very good chance Starmer will be in Number 10, but I’m not convinced either Trump or Biden will be in the White House.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Starmer will be in Number 10, but I’m not convinced either Trump or Biden will be in the White House.

Let’s hope you are proved right.

 

[abc]

There’s obviously a very good chance Starmer will be in Number 10, but I’m not convinced either Trump or Biden will be in the White House.

Whilst we focus on the desire for Statmer to become PM, I suspect little will change as a result. However, who becomes the next US President could literally change the course of the world and there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Whilst we focus on the desire for Statmer to become PM, I suspect little will change as a result. However, who becomes the next US President could literally change the course of the world and there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it.

I have no desire to see Starmer at Number 10. A vacillating impostor with a rictus grin and zero personality. Trouble is, what’s the alternative? I struggle to remember who the LibDem leader is, they’re so anonymous. Same with the Greens. For many of us, there’s no one. In the automation era, maybe that’s Starmer’s destiny — to be our first android PM. But I agree that the US election is far more critical. Whether it’s Trump’s hubris or Biden's senility, we seem doomed to become a victim of one or the other. This is why football has become so important to me. It's an escape from all this shit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Munya gives his appraisal of Starmer's opponent.

 

[Lenny Rider]

I have no desire to see Starmer at Number 10. A vacillating impostor with a rictus grin and zero personality. Trouble is, what’s the alternative? I struggle to remember who the LibDem leader is, they’re so anonymous. Same with the Greens. For many of us, there’s no one. In the automation era, maybe that’s Starmer’s destiny — to be our first android PM. But I agree that the US election is far more critical. Whether it’s Trump’s hubris or Biden's senility, we seem doomed to become a victim of one or the other. This is why football has become so important to me. It's an escape from all this shit.

Sir Ed Davey leads the Lib Dems, he makes your bog standard social worker/probation officer look like Errol Flynn or Oliver Reed in comparison.

Apparently sat on his hands during the plight one of his constituents who was a Postmaster, latterly, and thankfully, now fully exonerated.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Let’s hope you are proved right.

All well and good Hugo provided the incoming POTUS is a better option than Donald or Joe?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have no desire to see Starmer at Number 10. A vacillating impostor with a rictus grin and zero personality. Trouble is, what’s the alternative? I struggle to remember who the LibDem leader is, they’re so anonymous. Same with the Greens. For many of us, there’s no one. In the automation era, maybe that’s Starmer’s destiny — to be our first android PM. But I agree that the US election is far more critical. Whether it’s Trump’s hubris or Biden's senility, we seem doomed to become a victim of one or the other. This is why football has become so important to me. It's an escape from all this shit.

Part of the problem is we have been fed a diet of wheezes and gimmicks for the last 13 years. "Once in a lifetime" referendum. Brexit. Oven ready deal. World-beating vaccine roll-out. Hands, face, space. Stop the boats. Rwanda. We expect a political tummy tickle on a regular basis by strident and charismatic leaders like Cameron, Johnson, Farage, Truss and Sunk.

I have been trying to like Starmer. He hasn't done anything to offend me. But I find his voice is too nasal and whiney. A sort of non-Brummie Potter.

But I also recognise that, just as with Potter, the habitus brings out the bully in me. Were I 15 years old (as opposed to the 65 I am) I'd be itching to punch them both hard in the face.

Luckily, I can see that steer calmer is the right man in the right place. I don't need to be 'inspired' and 'excited' like I was by Johnson (till I gave my head a wobble and reminded myself the oaf was lying - again). I want dull and ruthless. Non-doctrinaire.

Starmer is hated by the hard left. That is, almost in itself, good enough for me

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Part of the problem is we have been fed a diet of wheezes and gimmicks for the last 13 years. "Once in a lifetime" referndum. Brexit. Oven ready deal. World-beating vaccine roll-out. Hands, face, space. Stop the boats. Rwanda. We expect a political tummy tickle on a regular basis by strident and charismatic leaders like Cameron, Johnson, Farage, Truss and Sunk.

I have been trying to like Starmer. He hasn't done anything to offend me. But I find his voice is too nasal and whiney. A sort of non-Brummie Potter.

But I also recognise that, just as with Potter, the habitus brings out the bully in me. Were I 15 years old (as opposed to the 65 I am) I'd be itching to punch them both hard in the face.

Luckily, I can see that steer calmer is the right man in the right place. I don't need to be 'inspired' and 'excited' like I was by Johnson (till I gave my head a wobble and reminded myself the oaf was lying - again). I want dull and ruthless. Non-doctrinaire.

Starmer is hated by the hard left. That is, almost in itself, good enough for me

I would like an inspirational leader. Not so much for me — I’m old enough and have just about enough savings to not have to care too much. But for the sake of the country and for the sake of younger generations. I still cling on to the unfashionable view that Tony Blair was an inspirational leader.

I agree that government over the past 14 years has been piss poor. Trouble is, opposition has been little better. Instead of offering an alternative vision, all we’ve had is an army of 'creatives' producing nothing but mockery and performative savagery. When Labour gets back into power, they will no doubt get the same charming treatment. They've dug themselves a hole by helping to reduce the art of government to a laughing stock (aided by the government itself at times, of course). Meanwhile, while they’re all having such tremendous fun, I've been left with literally no idea, none whatsoever, of what Labour is offering the people of this country. I can’t name a single policy different from what we’ve experienced over the past 14 years. If you’d asked me a fortnight ago I may have muttered something about a vague green investment plan but even that’s gone.

There’s only one realistic way out IMO, and I recall you disagree on this. And that’s to change our electoral system to some form of PR, as almost every other European nation does. FPTP encourages mediocrity and disenfranchises millions of would-be voters. It makes it almost impossible for new political initiatives to emerge. PR not only encourages consensus, it requires consensus — something we never have in this country, but that we desperately need.

 

[beorhthelm]

I would like an inspirational leader. Not so much for me — I’m old enough and have just about enough savings to not have to care too much. But for the sake of the country and for the sake of younger generations. I still cling on to the unfashionable view that Tony Blair was an inspirational leader.

I agree that government over the past 14 years has been piss poor. Trouble is, opposition has been little better. Instead of offering an alternative vision, all we’ve had is an army of 'creatives' producing nothing but mockery and performative savagery. When Labour gets back into power, they will no doubt get the same charming treatment. They've dug themselves a hole by helping to reduce the art of government to a laughing stock (aided by the government itself at times, of course). Meanwhile, while they’re all having such tremendous fun, I've been left with literally no idea, none whatsoever, of what Labour is offering the people of this country. I can’t name a single policy different from what we’ve experienced over the past 14 years. If you’d asked me a fortnight ago I may have muttered something about a vague green investment plan but even that’s gone.

There’s only one realistic way out IMO, and I recall you disagree on this. And that’s to change our electoral system to some form of PR, as almost every other European nation does. FPTP encourages mediocrity and disenfranchises millions of would-be voters. It makes it almost impossible for new political initiatives to emerge. PR not only encourages consensus, it requires consensus — something we never have in this country, but that we desperately need.

excellent, you observe lack of different policies between main parties, then say we need PR for consensus. all you get with PR is lots of promises that would be immediatly broken, in the case of a multi-party coalition, or hard-line in the case of two aligned parties in coalition.

what we actually need is more competent politicans, ones that can express and sell a policy and strategic plan to the electorate. i think we'll at least get the competent part with Starmer. none of our poliitcans seem able to come up with let alone sell a plan, voting systems wont change that.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

But you could almost argue that they don’t need newspaper front covers any more just send out their ‘message’ via social media.

It’s the year for elections, aside from us, America and Germany both have major polls, without wishing the year away it will be interesting to see where we are in 12 months time?

There’s obviously a very good chance Starmer will be in Number 10, but I’m not convinced either Trump or Biden will be in the White House.

I am. The force/support behind the pair of them is too strong (possibly more prototcol/political games in the Dems). There is almost no chance of anyone else getting the nominations from either side, so I can't see anyone else other than these two becoming the next POTUS. Trump is nailed on, even if convicted (I don't think he will be before November) and in the unlikely event of another Democrat going up against him, they'll get beaten by Trumpo.

The only other outcome is if Biden wins but dies between before re-taking office, in which case, I think it falls to the VP, no?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I would like an inspirational leader. Not so much for me — I’m old enough and have just about enough savings to not have to care too much. But for the sake of the country and for the sake of younger generations. I still cling on to the unfashionable view that Tony Blair was an inspirational leader.

I agree that government over the past 14 years has been piss poor. Trouble is, opposition has been little better. Instead of offering an alternative vision, all we’ve had is an army of 'creatives' producing nothing but mockery and performative savagery. When Labour gets back into power, they will no doubt get the same charming treatment. They've dug themselves a hole by helping to reduce the art of government to a laughing stock (aided by the government itself at times, of course). Meanwhile, while they’re all having such tremendous fun, I've been left with literally no idea, none whatsoever, of what Labour is offering the people of this country. I can’t name a single policy different from what we’ve experienced over the past 14 years. If you’d asked me a fortnight ago I may have muttered something about a vague green investment plan but even that’s gone.

There’s only one realistic way out IMO, and I recall you disagree on this. And that’s to change our electoral system to some form of PR, as almost every other European nation does. FPTP encourages mediocrity and disenfranchises millions of would-be voters. It makes it almost impossible for new political initiatives to emerge. PR not only encourages consensus, it requires consensus — something we never have in this country, but that we desperately need.

Interesting views, and perfectly understandable. (I too was a Blair fan.....till he decided to let the petulant jock have his way).

Labour certainly lost their way. Looking back, if Broon had stayed a dour jock, instead of thinking he had to grin every time a camera appeared, we wouldn't have ended up will Milliband. And looking back, Milliband was mocked and bullied in the media - for being what he is - a man with a strange voice (there was doubtless a bit of antisemitism in the mocking trope, too). Then they f***ed it all up by giving Corbyn a charity seat on the leadership ballot, forgetting that the membership (which is not the vast majority of labour voters) was over-run with Trotskyites, people obsessed with Israel and other 'idealists'. Bosh, we get Jezza in a new suit on the front bench.

I disagree with you somewhat over why 'government' makes the nation a laughing stock. It is surely....the government itself - a succession of shit-awful tory governments. The Corbyn experiment was of course ghastly but he was never PM, and labour have no role in the last 13 years of tomfoolery, other than being too poor to persuade the people to vote them in.

As I have noted many times, Corbyn is long gone, and his acolytes have been picked off, one by one, with no fuss, by a clever Starmer who has simply acted whenever one of them runs of his or her silly mouth. The fact this has been so low key is why, when the likes of Diane Abbot starts attacking Starmer, nobody takes any notice.

Yet, like you I can't name a labour policy. Unlike you, I'm not bothered right now. They clearly haven't come out with anything mad or we would have heard about it (it would be the only issue of interest for Sunk and chums to bang on about, since they know we are bored with 'Rwanda' and 'Stop the Boats').

So it is right that Starmer says little. We know exactly how the election campaign will play. It is better that little Sunk squawks about 'no policies' than gets a load of Labour policies for his team of corrupt goblin economic advisers to lie about. The last thing I want is the latter-day equivalent of all that bollocks that came through my letter box during the Brexit campaign. If you have forgotten what a right wing smear campaign looks like when it gets up a head of hateful steam, let me remind you:

 

[Colonel Mustard]

excellent, you observe lack of different policies between main parties, then say we need PR for consensus. all you get with PR is lots of promises that would be immediatly broken, in the case of a multi-party coalition, or hard-line in the case of two aligned parties in coalition.

what we actually need is more competent politicans, ones that can express and sell a policy and strategic plan to the electorate. i think we'll at least get the competent part with Starmer. none of our poliitcans seem able to come up with let alone sell a plan, voting systems wont change that.

You’ve not understood my point, which is probably my fault.

As for competent politicians, where do we get them from? The fact is, had social media existed in its current full savagery pre-2000, everyone would have seemed the same incompetent scandal magnets that we have now. Politicians have to be perfect, not in their current behaviour but going all the way back to their schooldays and university life. It will be the same when Labour get in. The politicians I really like for their authenticity, like Jess Phillips, Angela Rayner, Wes Streeting etc will be smeared and lampooned out of existence, leaving us with the Starmers and Reeveses of this world. The 'competent' ones. Oh joy.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Interesting views, and perfectly understandable. (I too was a Blair fan.....till he decided to let the petulant jock have his way).

Labour certainly lost their way. Looking back, if Broon had stayed a dour jock, instead of thinking he had to grin every time a camera appeared, we wouldn't have ended up will Milliband. And looking back, Milliband was mocked and bullied in the media - for being what he is - a man with a strange voice (there was doubtless a bit of antisemitism in the mocking trope, too). Then they f***ed it all up by giving Corbyn a charity seat on the leadership ballot, forgetting that the membership (which is not the vast majority of labour voters) was over-run with Trotskyites, people obsessed with Israel and other 'idealists'. Bosh, we get Jezza in a new suit on the front bench.

I disagree with you somewhat over why 'government' makes the nation a laughing stock. It is surely....the government itself - a succession of shit-awful tory governments. The Corbyn experiment was of course ghastly but he was never PM, and labour have no role in the last 13 years of tomfoolery, other than being too poor to persuade the people to vote them in.

As I have noted many times, Corbyn is long gone, and his acolytes have been picked off, one by one, with no fuss, by a clever Starmer who has simply acted whenever one of them runs of his or her silly mouth. The fact this has been so low key is why, when the likes of Diane Abbot starts attacking Starmer, nobody takes any notice.

Yet, like you I can't name a labour policy. Unlike you, I'm not bothered right now. They clearly haven't come out with anything mad or we would have heard about it (it would be the only issue of interest for Sunk and chums to bang on about, since they know we are bored with 'Rwanda' and 'Stop the Boats').

So it is right that Starmer says little. We know exactly how the election campaign will play. It is better that little Sunk squawks about 'no policies' than gets a load of Labour policies for his team of corrupt goblin economic advisers to lie about. The last thing I want is the latter-day equivalent of all that bollocks that came through my letter box during the Brexit campaign. If you have forgotten what a right wing smear campaign looks like when it gets up a head of hateful steam, let me remind you:

I don’t like these silly names people give politicians — Sunk, Broon, Tony Bliar, Call me Dave etc. Sorry, but it’s part of the problem — this massive disrespect towards people in public life, usually for no other reason than they’re in public life.

Too many points to respond to them all, and let’s be honest, you’re a bit too deeply invested in Labour for me to have much hope of making a dent in your comfortable position. Just a couple of things though — I honestly don’t think there was a shred of antisemitism towards Miliband (note spelling). Ed is a thoroughly nice chap IMO but is a great example of someone who isn’t deathly dull and who has a bit of personality being seen as fair game for lampooning by his opponents and by sections of the media. I really dislike that. That said, one of those sliding doors moments is what if his brother had been elected instead. Frankly I think David would have got Labour over the line in 2015 and things might have been very different. We’d still have had COVID and Russia/Ukraine though, which would probably have spelt the end of a Labour administration.

I could prattle on all day but I’ll spare you the tedium. I only took this thread off my ignore list to see what was being said about Rochdale. Time to put it back. Not because I don’t think your (plural) views are not valid, they totally are. But I find that trying to discuss politics on a football forum an exasperating experience. Most people find it impossible to just chat about politics dispassionately without getting abusive or blinkered. Maybe I’ll try starting a thread closer to the election with the proviso that people don’t get on their own party hobbyhorse. Anyway, cheerio for now.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don’t like these silly names people give politicians — Sunk, Broon, Tony Bliar, Call me Dave etc. Sorry, but it’s part of the problem — this massive disrespect towards people in public life, usually for no other reason than they’re in public life.

Too many points to respond to them all, and let’s be honest, you’re a bit too deeply invested in Labour for me to have much hope of making a dent in your comfortable position. Just a couple of things though — I honestly don’t think there was a shred of antisemitism towards Miliband (note spelling). Ed is a thoroughly nice chap IMO but is a great example of someone who isn’t deathly dull and who has a bit of personality being seen as fair game for lampooning by his opponents and by sections of the media. I really dislike that. That said, one of those sliding doors moments is what if his brother had been elected instead. Frankly I think David would have got Labour over the line in 2015 and things might have been very different. We’d still have had COVID and Russia/Ukraine though, which would probably have spelt the end of a Labour administration.

I could prattle on all day but I’ll spare you the tedium. I only took this thread off my ignore list to see what was being said about Rochdale. Time to put it back. Not because I don’t think your (plural) views are not valid, they totally are. But I find that trying to discuss politics on a football forum an exasperating experience. Most people find it impossible to just chat about politics dispassionately without getting abusive or blinkered. Maybe I’ll try starting a thread closer to the election with the proviso that people don’t get on their own party hobbyhorse. Anyway, cheerio for now.

I enjoy our chats. You and @Neville's Breakfast are good at dragging me back from my drifts into hyperbole

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

excellent, you observe lack of different policies between main parties, then say we need PR for consensus. all you get with PR is lots of promises that would be immediatly broken, in the case of a multi-party coalition, or hard-line in the case of two aligned parties in coalition.

what we actually need is more competent politicans, ones that can express and sell a policy and strategic plan to the electorate. i think we'll at least get the competent part with Starmer. none of our poliitcans seem able to come up with let alone sell a plan, voting systems wont change that.

Indeed. This country is not mentally prepared for coalition government, and rather than generate a happy middle, with sensible concensus, with PR we'd end up with the tories in coalition with the Ulster Pope-burners and the latest incarnation of UKip, with Farage busking his way through a ministerial job. A bit like Israel. Or with Labour held to ransom and led to ruin by the SWP with Gorgeous George as minister for Islamic affairs. With a new 'popular' constitution. Like Venezuela.

f*** that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Indeed. This country is not mentally prepared for coalition government, and rather than generate a happy middle, with sensible concensus, with PR we'd end up with the tories in coalition with the Ulster Pope-burners and the latest incarnation of UKip, with Farage busking his way through a ministerial job. A bit like Israel. Or with Labour held to ransom and led to ruin by the SWP with Gorgeous George as minister for Islamic affairs. With a new 'popular' constitution. Like Venezuela.

f*** that.

Israel, Venezuela ? What a load of old Bolleux, H

Far more likely we would end up with a Government very similar to the all the other European countries that don't have FPTP, Ireland, Malta, Germany, Albania, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Andorra, Italy, Lithuania, North Macedonia, Iceland, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Moldova, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland.
But our brilliant system gets us the choice of Johnson or Corbyn which brings us to where we are now

I rest my case