Whataboutism is alive and kicking
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[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10
- Thread starter Rdodge30
- Start date
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Are we to expect a bit of you posting opinion polls over the next few months? It's just that you used to be so keen on doing so.
On a related note, can you share what you think the party you are a member of can claim as achievements in their 13.5 years in government?
I'll start:
-- keeping unemployment low throughout their term in office
-- Brexit (although we might have to file that under 'policy delivery' rather than achievement)
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
True but you know as well as I do, that no rating worth his salt is going to say anything remotely confrontational, unless he wants his arse handed to him on a plate and so your original post was meaningless.Whataboutism is alive and kicking
given the choice between Starmer and any of the existing bunch of clowns I know who’d I prefer to talk to …. And Starmer a lawyer …..
No, I don't think you can, and no, I don't think I can.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,231
could I ask you as to why you are still a member?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Macron offered to have an asylum processing centre in France, which May turned down.I'll put this into the 'Labour currently considering' pile together with the Seven different recycling bins, Meat tax, compulsory car sharing etc etc
But there'll be a few that will fall for it
We give the French millions anyway, so it would be more cost effective, will cut down the number of boats dramaticall, and is offshore.
Probably because I get on quite well with my local MP who is a decent enough chap... and who knows, one day I may get a meaningful choice in a leadership contest?
That and inertia - and a lack of alternatives.
I hadn't realized you were a tory, which is a testament to something. Possibly to you.
There is surely a better answer to the question, though, and justification for your loyalty.
It can be argued that socialism is fundamentally flawed, with the 'from each according to ability and to each according to need' mantra simply a rubric for skiving, aiming low, and keeping the entrepreneurial spirit of invention, and hence progress, down.
On the other hand, conservatism supports the rubric that gave us Empire and civic wealth, the absence of obstacles to hold back the pioneering spirit, and the freedom for good men to act in the best interest.
OK, so labour ceased to be 'socialist' when Blair binned off clause 4 (if it ever was truly socialist). And there is a strong element in the tory party that supports opportunity for all (not just the Great Men), and an acceptance, even a pride in our national institutions (health and education).
So it is no longer black and white. You don't have to look for a 'better' doctrine than the tory doctrine, because today the essence of the parties is very much the image of the leadership.
Labour had a nasty lurch to the left (Corbyn) but because the left (in the UK) have always spent more time bickering among themselves, and couldn't plan a cup of tea without a committee meeting, once Corbyn resigned they melted away like a snow shower in May (including May Day) the (hard) left was once again gone. The party seems to be quite respectable, sober and sensible, now, and all the ballots I get to vote in are now anodyne, with hard left candidates on the back foot.
Your lot, however, have been on a race to the bottom ever since 'call me' Dave and his pal Gideon locked in 'austerity' and then risked everything on Brexit, allowing a tide of shite to sweep through the party, culminating in the Braverman vs Sunak tragi-panto, with 13 years of neglect and decline on the CV.
If you feel you still lack an alternative, it may be that you live too comfortable a life. But sticking with what one has is, of course, a very conservative imperative. It is that imperative that leave me feeling most uncomfortable about your lot. The king is dead, long live the king, and all that.
Anyway....it is what it is.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
The problem you’ll have is actually having a party to support after the next general election, it’ll be ton apart by the Nazi element and anyone with an ounce of cred will vote for anyone but the Tories. Admitting to being a Tory will be as bad as admitting you have the clap.
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Machiavelli
Well-known member
Can I thank you for this, and your ensuing, response.
I'll offer something else: the various governments haven't been too gung-ho in its foreign adventurism over the past 13.5 years, much of this is a reaction to New Labour, supported by the parliamentary Conservative Party -- with the exceptions of Clark and Heseltine -- being too gung-ho under the previous party administration.
How optimistic are you of the Tories reuniting in opposition, and concentrating on the singular goal of getting re-elected? They've been pretty good at that for over three centuries.
It will take 2 GEs minimum.
Well, admitting to be a Tory is already as bad as having the clap according to the great and good of NSC. However, that won’t be the case forever, and it is quite possible to hold traditional Tory values without being a supporter of the shit shower that are presently in Government.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,231
thanks for the reply, personally i couldn't tip any money into that particular hole, i'ld want something back!
Brian Fantana
Well-known member
Regardless of any events, circumstances, policies, individuals or in-fighting, nearly 15 years in power is too much for any party. It’s time for a freshen up anyway.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
Traditional Tory values have been washed down the shitter and the Tory brand tarnished so badly that it’ll take many years to recover. I for one can live with that.
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Yes, you are right.
The Tories need 10 years in Opposition to come to their senses.
In the meantime, let us hope that Sir Keir and the Labour Party do a good job in Government.
Absolutely correct. For the good of the country, there should be a GE now.
It is odd. It all went bad for them when Cameron, who wrote Michael Howard's (traditional) right wing manifesto decided to ditch principles and become 'Call Me Dave', big fan of Aston Villa, or is it Wet Sham, whatever, the one prince Harry supports. Or is it William? Bring my mate Gideon in to help out. Put the Bullingdon boys back on the road. What could possibly go wrong? Dilettante politics. And then, of course the Great Wheeze of putting Euroskepticism to bed forever with a once-in-a-lifetime referendum, which we don't need to campaign on because Jacob Rees Mogg is a bit weird, isn't he? Followed by his resignation and a chance to spend more time with his money. I mean his family.
And then, years later, this architect of tory degradation is brought back by the fourth leader to succeed him. The man who got done by Brexit. The poor members, instinctively loyal, have had to get foresquare behind the leader who succeeded the dolt who they were fouresquare behind after she succeeded the one they really liked who they had been foursequare behind, but who turned out to have lied to everyone, having replaced that woman they had been foursquare behind. No wonder most lifetime conservatives of gentle centre right persuasion have taken up golf, fly fishing, knitting or the pursuit of a good book. Possible all of them, and all at once.
ClemFandango
Active member
- Oct 2, 2023
- 165
That’s what everyone said after Labour’s thrashing in the last election..
jordanseagull
Well-known member
- Feb 11, 2009
- 4,157
The irony of you mentioning credibility as part of a post that compares this shitshow of a government to the Nazi party. Idiot.