[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[LamieRobertson]

I blame Boris. I don’t know why just now, but I’ll concoct a connection between Jess, Boris and Keir.

Heavy rain due tomorrow I’m blaming Boris

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I’ll concoct a connection between Jess, Boris and Keir.

It beats my fan fiction.

 

[Weststander]

I might be more bothered by this if they were divided over an issue they have any actual influence over.
As it is, they might as well be resigning over what colour dressing gown Arthur Dent was wearing.
To be clear, I'm not trying to reduce the horror of what's going on in Gaza, just to be realistic about what any British government (and much less the opposition) can actually do about it. Which is to say, absolutely bugger all.

Some people trip themselves up. They say the UK is a non consequential country on a long decline, ignored by the real new powers of the world, carrying zero influence on any matter. Then when it suits, belligerently demand that our governments lay down the law to the US, Israel, China or Saudi Arabia on a variety of issues. And if they don’t, to ‘punish’ them on trade, sharing of IP and science, access to markets. As if in that moment we’re a significant player.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, but generally diplomacy gets some results. Fascist Putin an exception.

 

[Chicken Run]

If anything this vote has shown that Starmer has real leadership qualities, he knows what he stands for and how he wants his party to stand and whoa betide any MP that doesn’t get on board the bus, good on him!

"I regret that some colleagues felt unable to support the position tonight. But I wanted to be clear about where I stood, and where I will stand".

He said Israel had suffered "its worst terrorist attack in a single day" at the hands of Hamas on 7 October.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Interestingly, whichever side of this particular argument you stand, it makes a refreshing change to actually see MPs speaking out (and even resigning from Government posts) on points of principal, rather than being sacked for incompetence, corruption, other various nefarious deeds, lying or backstabbing their 'colleagues' in their desperate climb to power

 

[Guinness Boy]

If anything this vote has shown that Starmer has real leadership qualities, he knows what he stands for and how he wants his party to stand and whoa betide any MP that does get on board the bus, good on him!

"I regret that some colleagues felt unable to support the position tonight. But I wanted to be clear about where I stood, and where I will stand".

He said Israel had suffered "its worst terrorist attack in a single day" at the hands of Hamas on 7 October.

Can you imagine what the Labour response would be if Magic Grandpa was still in charge

Good to see Labour have some real leadership. Undoubtedly some of the rebels were reflecting how their constituents feel and had to decide between them and the party whip. Not ideal but hardly a party divided as much as the other lot.

 

[abc]

Interestingly, whichever side of this particular argument you stand, it makes a refreshing change to actually see MPs speaking out (and even resigning from Government posts) on points of principal, rather than being sacked for incompetence, corruption, other various nefarious deeds, lying or backstabbing their 'colleagues' in their desperate climb to power

That was my thought too. One of the modern day problems with politics is that any dissent or disagreement is termed a rebellion rather than a debate. Similarly if a gov changes its mind because it has listened to the people or opposition then they are condemned for making a u turn.
No particular sympathy for Starmer though as labour do this as much as everyone else. But I respect the labour MPs who stood up for what they believed in (and i have no opinion as to who was right or wrong, that’s not my point).

 

[beorhthelm]

for all the internal party angst and dishamony on this issue, it wont be a issue on the doorstep or make a difference to voting next year.

 

[drew]

I'm not entirely clear why Starmer effectively painted himself into a corner. The obvious aim is a cease fire followed by peace and, preferably, a two state system where each recognize the right of the other to exist. The precursor to that might well be humanitarian pauses but that shouldn't have meant Starmer couldn't also argue for the next steps. Yes, it will mean having to get Hamas to effectively change their constitution and probably free and fair elections in Palestinian territories but one step at a time.

Starmer messed up with his LBC interview and I think it snowballed from there. That said, I don't think this will affect his chances of winning the next election (thankfully).

 

[ROSM]

I'm not entirely clear why Starmer effectively painted himself into a corner. The obvious aim is a cease fire followed by peace and, preferably, a two state system where each recognize the right of the other to exist. The precursor to that might well be humanitarian pauses but that shouldn't have meant Starmer couldn't also argue for the next steps. Yes, it will mean having to get Hamas to effectively change their constitution and probably free and fair elections in Palestinian territories but one step at a time.

Starmer messed up with his LBC interview and I think it snowballed from there. That said, I don't think this will affect his chances of winning th next election (thankfully).

The issue here is that Cleverly and Sunak have shared the intelligence of what is happening on they ground, they have with Lammy and Starmer. Therefore the end result is likely to be a similar position.

 

[drew]

The issue here is that Cleverly and Sunak have shared the intelligence of what is happening onnth they have with Lammy

I'm aware of that. However, are you suggesting that this was only done on the condition that Starmer only supported humanitarian pauses and that there should be no mention of ceasefire?

 

[ROSM]

I'm aware of that. However, are you suggesting that this was only done on the condition that Starmer only supported humanitarian pauses and that there should be no mention of ceasefire?

No i am saying that similar information may lead to not disimilar decisions. A few weeks ago everybody was saying israel had bombed a hospital which now is being said to have been a hamas SAM missile misfiring. Why were hamas firing a missile from a hospital car park in the 1st place etc.

The humanitarian pause is a compromise. I do understand many mp's will want a ceasefire as do mamy people in britain too. But there will be just as many who want a 2 state solution and believe that has more chance if hamas arent in control

 

[Molango's visa]

Thanks for giving us another term of the Tories then.

Starmer is trying to get elected and yet he's being accused of by some on here (not you) of "lying easily and frequently". That's some call for a guy who has dedicated his life to working for human rights and in a political spectrum that is centre left.

We have to see the bigger picture here. Starmer knows that if he takes a position outside the government position then the media will use it to crucify him. It may play well to the protesters calling for a ceasefire, but I doubt it'll win him an election.

My message to all those doubting him would be, stay together. Don't be led into a trap. Don't let Bravermann, Sunak and the ERG lead us into more years of deprived political thinking.

Precisely.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Can you imagine what the Labour response would be if Magic Grandpa was still in charge

Good to see Labour have some real leadership. Undoubtedly some of the rebels were reflecting how their constituents feel and had to decide between them and the party whip. Not ideal but hardly a party divided as much as the other lot.

There is a great article on the BBC as to why this vote could have done Starmer a massive favour by Henry Zeffman. It mentions…….

There are now no members of the ‘Socialist Campaign Group’ on the front bench.

Half of the MP’s (27) who defied Sir Keir are from this group.

Sir Keir has made sure almost none of those associated with the Labour left are in winnable constituencies for the next election.

People might not like it for now, but Sir Keir only has eyes on No.10.

I’m judging him on what he does when he gets there, not how he gets there. If the likes of Boris Johnson can convince the electorate to vote for him, Sir Keir needs to be very strategic about how he bags that PM job.

 

[Pavilionaire]

What surprises me is that being out of power for 13+ years - but now only a year or so away from being in power - so many leading Labour ministers have resigned over something that is no more than a point of principle over a matter the UK has no control and - arguably - minimal influence.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

What surprises me is that being out of power for 13+ years - but now only a year or so away from being in power - so many leading Labour ministers have resigned over something that is no more than a point of principle over a matter the UK has no control and - arguably - minimal influence.

Resign over something while in opposition to earn a reputation as principled.
Then take a job in government.
Point to previous resignation to justify reputation for being principled while simultaneously signing up to lots of things you don't agree with in power.

I'm not suggesting they're all that cynical.

 

[Badger Boy]

What surprises me is that being out of power for 13+ years - but now only a year or so away from being in power - so many leading Labour ministers have resigned over something that is no more than a point of principle over a matter the UK has no control and - arguably - minimal influence.

It makes me very worried about the calibre of person who is going to make up a Labour cabinet. Don't get me wrong, the villains currently populating the Tory cabinet will not be missed. But it does concern me that there's a real lack of true characters and leaders in both parties right now.

 

[Weststander]

What surprises me is that being out of power for 13+ years - but now only a year or so away from being in power - so many leading Labour ministers have resigned over something that is no more than a point of principle over a matter the UK has no control and - arguably - minimal influence.

They’d say on morality. But you’d like to think everyone should have laser focus on the end game, as big a majority as possible. To me the Tory infighting is similar, in that MP’s with niche right wing views don’t give a **** about helping to secure a landslide loss in Dec 24, with tunnel vision for their way or the highway.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It makes me very worried about the calibre of person who is going to make up a Labour cabinet. Don't get me wrong, the villains currently populating the Tory cabinet will not be missed. But it does concern me that there's a real lack of true characters and leaders in both parties right now.

The likes of Jess Phillips has been championed as a "genuine" person that ordinary voters can relate to, but wears her heart of her sleeve too much for my liking.

I think that Starmer has assembled the best Shadow Cabinet since Blair's First Ministry, and I think those in the top positions are robust. The likes of Lammy, Streeting, Ashworth, Cooper, Miliband seems to have a genuine passion for politics and the ability to communicate. I do think that Angela Rayner as Deputy Leader is a risk though.

 

[Chicken Run]

There are now no members of the ‘Socialist Campaign Group’ on the front bench.

Half of the MP’s (27) who defied Sir Keir are from this group.

I mean who wants a bunch of socialists on the front bench of a Labour Government