[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Perkino]

good post, i agree entirely, but would add, i voted tory once (thatch), and i do think i was gullible. black wednesday and the following years have taught me that. i was astonished to learn recently that the labour party has paid back more of the national debt since the war! the tories have never been the party of fiscal responsibilty, and that's their shtick! and now look what's happened,......... ah well!

All the parties have something worthwhile that appeals to a sector of society. I've heard many politicians share their policies and when in power they fail to deliver or adjust their plans. I know where I am currently leaning but with more than a year until the next general election there could be some big changes in public opinion.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

For me, some meat on the bone.

- working with the EU on closer economic/borders ties. The vast majority would accept that now, eg I know Brexiteers with regrets.
- NHS recruitment at all clinical levels including from overseas.
- roads maintenance programme, this isn’t trivial, they’re incredibly dangerous especially to two wheelers.
- a huge investment in mental health services including CAMHS and Wellbeing.
- tertiary level apprenticeships. We talk the talk, but firms won’t commit on cost grounds.
- housebuilding, planning reform. Millions sofa surf, live in cramped conditions, in B&B’s or slum landlord properties.

Starmer/Reeve really should really be cracking on with policies now. To enter government cold will waste vital months and years. Setting up commissions and reviews led by the ‘great and good’ always takes epochs in this country.

One hopes Starmer is keeping his plans quiet rather than still working out what they are. If I were he I'd keep schtum and gamble that fewer people will be put of by lack of pre-election detail than will be put off if they give detail allowing Sunak do a partial analysis to inform a twisted mocking narrative.

What Starmer needs is a 'Britain Isn't Working' equivalent with a twist*. In 79 Thatcher was elected to sort out unemployment and the crisis (what crisis?). Nobody realized her main plan was to disarm the unions and flog off the family silver, resulting in rather than bringing unemployment down from 1 million, increasing unemployment to put a bit of fear back into the proles. Five million on the dole overall.

*The twist being (channeling Jonathan Pye) that although the pre-election manifesto slogan, whatever it is, won't be the main plank of policy, the true plan won't be the complete f***ing opposite (as it was with Thatcher), making the whole platform a misrepresentation (as it was with Thatcher) or, as it is sometimes known, especially by the four million who lost their jobs, a complete f***ing lie.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In my view we have to get behind Starmer, he’s the only option. It’s time for the far left to grow up and accept it. We need the Tories out.

It isn't the far left I'm worried about. It's the shy tories.

 

[rogersix]

That didn’t happen in absolute or relative terms, Brown started by preaching prudence, abandoning that in 2001. Then embarking on significant annual deficits, with public debt spiralling from 2007 to the current day.

In addition to national debt below, off balance sheet we’ve been left with a hidden £300b of debt on the public sector from the Major/Blair/Brown experiment with PFI. It only gave the nation £55b of assets.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...arillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

View attachment 163802View attachment 163803

indeed, the right wing philosophy exploits the people all of the time. which is the point of it, of course

i can't recall who said "partiotism is the last refuge of the scroundrel", but it was a long time ago, and still holds true

 

[Weststander]

One hopes Starmer is keeping his plans quiet rather than still working out what they are. If I were he I'd keep schtum and gamble that fewer people will be put of by lack of pre-election detail than will be put off if they give detail allowing Sunak do a partial analysis to inform a twisted mocking narrative.

What Starmer needs is a 'Britain Isn't Working' equivalent with a twist*. In 79 Thatcher was elected to sort out unemployment and the crisis (what crisis?). Nobody realized her main plan was to disarm the unions and flog off the family silver, resulting in rather than bringing unemployment down from 1 million, increasing unemployment to put a bit of fear back into the proles. Five million on the dole overall.

*The twist being (channeling Jonathan Pye) that although the pre-election manifesto slogan, whatever it is, won't be the main plank of policy, the true plan won't be the complete f***ing opposite (as it was with Thatcher), making the whole platform a misrepresentation (as it was with Thatcher) or, as it is sometimes known, especially by the four million who lost their jobs, a complete f***ing lie.

I’m not a marketing creative, but I’ve said for ages that Labour are missing huge tricks. They could graphically tell us what’s wrong (mental health, roads, operation waiting times), then finish with their vision on how from day one they’ll tangibly fix things.

Can only think they’re resting on their (25 point poll lead) laurels.

The cliche “We don’t know what public finances we’ll inherit” excuse is a cop out. The Tories were mocked in 2009/10 on nsc for saying the same thing.

 

[rogersix]

All the parties have something worthwhile that appeals to a sector of society. I've heard many politicians share their policies and when in power they fail to deliver or adjust their plans. I know where I am currently leaning but with more than a year until the next general election there could be some big changes in public opinion.

the tory voter appears to be bereft of logic and chutzpah,
but millions will still choose corruption and incompetence

 

[Insel affe]

the tory voter appears to be bereft of logic and chugzpah,

I think you will find just as many Labour voters voted for.............. Brexit

bit millions will still choose corruption and incompetence

When you have just two options really, then the voter has no real choice do they, so inevitably if you vote Tory or Labour, they both after time let you down and get greedy. FACT

 

[jcdenton08]

It isn't the far left I'm worried about. It's the shy tories.

Some friends of mine - much further left than I’ll ever be - told me they’re voting independent (in a no chance of winning constituency) because Starmer isn’t “true Labour”. If a sizeable whack of these people do as they say, it opens the door for the Tories.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I’m not a marketing creative, but I’ve said for ages that Labour are missing huge tricks. They could graphically tell us what’s wrong (mental health, roads, operation waiting times), then finish with their vision on how from day one they’ll tangibly fix things.

Can only think they’re resting on their (25 point poll lead) laurels.

The cliche “We don’t know what public finances we’ll inherit” excuse is a cop out. The Tories were mocked in 2009/10 on nsc for saying the same thing.

We will get all of that, but we're still 18 months out from an election. You win nothing with poll leads a year before an election. When all this does drop no-one will be saying 'ah, but they didn't tell us this in summer '23'. Patience is the virtue here.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

i can't recall who said "partiotism is the last refuge of the scroundrel", but it was a long time ago, and still holds true

Dr Johnson.

I’ve not read the thread so don’t know if it’s been mentioned but the key thing for me is electoral reform. I was very disappointed when Starmer refused to adopt it as an official policy. Trouble is, oppositions are usually very keen on PR but become coy about it once in power as the existing system got them elected and gives the governing party far more power than they’d have under PR where some sort of power sharing is almost inevitable.

 

[Weststander]

We will get all of that, but we're still 18 months out from an election. You win nothing with poll leads a year before an election. When all this does drop no-one will be saying 'ah, but they didn't tell us this in summer '23'. Patience is the virtue here.

It’s not just soundbites for a 6 week campaign, it’s a tangible vision and policies readymade for day one. The five years will fly by. Contrary to over confidence by some, with attacks from hard left enemies within, there are no guarantees on a second term. We need to see how the UK supertanker can be taken in a different direction. There was a politics prog the other day where objective commentators spoke of Brown spending years formulating an NHS-social care grand plan with an army of know it alls, then little happened.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Surely the key issues he has to address are inequality, climate crisis, energy security, food security, NHS reform, social care and AI. That's just for starters. All I have heard so far is that they will "grow the economy".
All I hear and read is that this country is in crisis, he has said it himself, and crises usually require innovative plans to rectify so I hope he is spending the time now coming up with them.

 

[WATFORD zero]

No matter what your political 'ideal', party or beliefs and no matter what policies you think need to be implemented to reach that 'ideal' there is one factor, regardless of political party, view, ideals and ideas.

It is, quite simply 'YOU CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT THE MONEY TO SUPPORT IT'

Thatcher had the oil money, the sell off of Nationalised Utilities and Council housing to fund massive societal change. Blair had the Worldwide International economic boom to fund his. We are currently in the worst economic situation in my memory (and I'm very old ), and in the middle of that worldwide economic disaster, we are managing to set new records

Trying to slow the current crashing economy and possibly turn it round is all that matters. Without that, the rest is just pissing in the wind

 

[pocketseagull]

Unfortunately the general noise so far has been that the tories have ruined the economy/country so Labour won't be able to do much. So uninspiring, really think Starmer is going to be an awful PM if Labour win a majority, hoping for a hung parliament and then we might actually see some change.

 

[clapham_gull]

Some friends of mine - much further left than I’ll ever be - told me they’re voting independent (in a no chance of winning constituency) because Starmer isn’t “true Labour”. If a sizeable whack of these people do as they say, it opens the door for the Tories.

I don't think the next election will be about them. There is so much noise from either the anti woke and immigration brigade on social media versus the anti Starmer Owen Jones types it's easy to forget the elections are won by people in marginal constituencies who flip their vote when they are tired of the current administration.

Polls are based on a small number, but we are in an age where they are published daily from a variety of sources with far better algorithms than we've ever had before.

The Tories have been consistently 20% behind for months. Unless they change their strategy of only trying to attract their core base, they will be blown away at the next election.

Those people in the middle just want the Tories out at the moment. It will only change if Labour do something to scare them. With relatively boring cautious Starmer it's hard at the moment to think what that is.

Sorry Corbyn fans, but everything you hate about Starmer will probably make him next PM.

 

[The Clamp]

Some friends of mine - much further left than I’ll ever be - told me they’re voting independent (in a no chance of winning constituency) because Starmer isn’t “true Labour”. If a sizeable whack of these people do as they say, it opens the door for the Tories.

Yep. Nobody should write the Tory's off at this point. Whatever side of Brexit one comes down on, us remainers were complacent and didn't bother putting up a fight. We believed we had it in the bag. I hope we don't make the same mistake with the next GE.

 

[Weststander]

I don't think the next election will be about them. There is so much noise from either the anti woke and immigration brigade on social media versus the anti Starmer Owen Jones types it's easy to forget the elections are won by people in marginal constituencies who flip their vote when they are tired of the current administration.

Polls are based on a small number, but we are in an age where they are published daily from a variety of sources with far better algorithms than we've ever had before.

The Tories have been consistently 20% behind for months. Unless they change their strategy of only trying to attract their core base, they will be blown away at the next election.

Those people in the middle just want the Tories out at the moment. It will only change if Labour do something to scare them. With relatively boring cautious Starmer it's hard at the moment to think what that is.

Sorry Corbyn fans, but everything you hate about Starmer will probably make him next PM.

Nailed it.

I spoke with a friend on election day 2019, an ex-Labour Brexiteer, who was highly concerned we were heading for a Corbyn landslide. His rationale … rabid lefties/woke outnumbered rabid gammons by huge numbers on Twatter and Facebook. Whatever their equivalent of thumbsup is, retweets. In the millions.

I pointed out that it was meaningless. A million at most obsessives on the platforms 24-7, posting thousands of times. Compared to 30 million active voters.

The musings/anger of entrenched folk in the likes of Hackney or Dover is not key.

 

[happypig]

Some friends of mine - much further left than I’ll ever be - told me they’re voting independent (in a no chance of winning constituency) because Starmer isn’t “true Labour”. If a sizeable whack of these people do as they say, it opens the door for the Tories.

I'd say I was pretty left wing and I share a lot of Corbyn/McDonnells' views. Where I differ from them is that I understand that it's a step too far to persuade centre-leaning voters to agree with me on a number of things.
However, despite my leftist views I intend to vote Lib-Dem as they are pretty nailed-on to unseat our Incumbent Tory.

 

[Beach Hut]

Whist the Torys have been around too long I still think Labour will struggle with Starmer given their lack of choice on previous party leaders namely the wrong Miliband and Comrade Corbyn who was probably worse than Michael Foot and picking a deputy leader who was an IRA sympathiser (utterly stupid choice).

As pointed out Labour have numerous aces they could play but clearly seem reluctant to do so which suggests they doubt their credibility.

 

[Is it PotG?]