[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[severnside gull]

Did he have a choice? There may be reasons.

Precisely.
Sunak planned to attack the financial commitment which is increasingly hard to double down on given the Tory scorched earth policy.
The Labour commitment to green policies hasn't changed any more than their respect and understanding of transgender issues - another attack vehicle for Sunak and his popcon fascists

 

[KZNSeagull]

Peter Tatchell says a 1% wealth tax on this country's billionaires would raise the £6bn a year required for the green fund. If that's true, why doesn't Starmer do that? As Tatchell pointed out, they will hardly notice as their wealth is going up by much more than that every year anyway.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So now the green policy has been ditched where are we with clear blue water between the two main parties?

I think the Tories have f***ed the economy much worse than people think because of their astronomical waste on Covid PPE, Test and Trace and the catastrophic Brexit which has made our economy 4% smaller. We can't afford to do anything new or bold, like safeguard our own environment or finish off a railway line.

Labour are prioritising on no new commitments to put a further strain on the economy, but without bold initiatives this will mean we won't hit our net zero targets.

Nobody is thinking outside the box, and Christ knows they've had 14 years to think of stuff. For a start they should simplify the way tax is charged, how it is collected and the rates that are paid. Not only is it high but it has never been so complex, and they don't have anywhere near the staff numbers to collect what is due or help people.

I'm still confident that Labour will win the next election, but I'm not confident there will be any fundamental change. and we will bumble along for another 6 years with an underperforming economy until a politician finally has the guts to say Brexit has f***ed things up and we need to enter into a Customs Union or re-enter the Single Market to kickstart things. Personally, I thinks the rest of the 2020s is a write-off. All politicians seem to be corrupt, spineless or both.

I have repeatedly stated that income tax should be at the same % for all, with no exceptions, with the lowest paid (who would lose all that 'no tax below this income threshold' benefit) getting an offset by an increase in the minimum wage.

However this cuts no ice with many on the left who think that you should pay more tax as a % of income as you earn more.

If we can't agree with my sort of perspective then the management of income tax will require complex oversight, and will offer scope for offsetting and other wheezes. I am disappointed that the left don't see the value of fixed % tax. But not altogether surprised.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I have repeatedly stated that income tax should be at the same % for all, with no exceptions, with the lowest paid (who would lose all that 'no tax below this income threshold' benefit) getting an offset by an increase in the minimum wage.

However this cuts no ice with many on the left who think that you should pay more tax as a % of income as you earn more.

If we can't agree with my sort of perspective then the management of income tax will require complex oversight, and will offer scope for offsetting and other wheezes. I am disappointed that the left don't see the value of fixed % tax. But not altogether surprised.

That's because it's bonkers.

 

[A1X]

The problem with the Tories is they eventually run out of other people's money to give away to their mates

 

[A1X]

Meanwhile, in "they're all the same" news...

 

[nicko31]

So now the green policy has been ditched where are we with clear blue water between the two main parties?

I think the Tories have f***ed the economy much worse than people think because of their astronomical waste on Covid PPE, Test and Trace and the catastrophic Brexit which has made our economy 4% smaller. We can't afford to do anything new or bold, like safeguard our own environment or finish off a railway line.

Labour are prioritising on no new commitments to put a further strain on the economy, but without bold initiatives this will mean we won't hit our net zero targets.

Nobody is thinking outside the box, and Christ knows they've had 14 years to think of stuff. For a start they should simplify the way tax is charged, how it is collected and the rates that are paid. Not only is it high but it has never been so complex, and they don't have anywhere near the staff numbers to collect what is due or help people.

I'm still confident that Labour will win the next election, but I'm not confident there will be any fundamental change. and we will bumble along for another 6 years with an underperforming economy until a politician finally has the guts to say Brexit has f***ed things up and we need to enter into a Customs Union or re-enter the Single Market to kickstart things. Personally, I thinks the rest of the 2020s is a write-off. All politicians seem to be corrupt, spineless or both.

Yep, where's the vision? KS has a solid 20 point lead, he should have just gone with it.

On election night I will enjoy numerous Tories from the red wall twats, to the entitled, to the absolute corrupt, to serial liars losing their seats. But I'm actually at the point where I feel the US result is more important this year, Trump is a real danger to the world.

I'm actually feeling a bit deflated. Thank f**k for the Albion

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So now the green policy has been ditched where are we with clear blue water between the two main parties?

I think the Tories have f***ed the economy much worse than people think because of their astronomical waste on Covid PPE, Test and Trace and the catastrophic Brexit which has made our economy 4% smaller. We can't afford to do anything new or bold, like safeguard our own environment or finish off a railway line.

Labour are prioritising on no new commitments to put a further strain on the economy, but without bold initiatives this will mean we won't hit our net zero targets.

Nobody is thinking outside the box, and Christ knows they've had 14 years to think of stuff. For a start they should simplify the way tax is charged, how it is collected and the rates that are paid. Not only is it high but it has never been so complex, and they don't have anywhere near the staff numbers to collect what is due or help people.

I'm still confident that Labour will win the next election, but I'm not confident there will be any fundamental change. and we will bumble along for another 6 years with an underperforming economy until a politician finally has the guts to say Brexit has f***ed things up and we need to enter into a Customs Union or re-enter the Single Market to kickstart things. Personally, I thinks the rest of the 2020s is a write-off. All politicians seem to be corrupt, spineless or both.

It's a perfect chance to put rejoining the EU into a manifesto, the gap between the two main parties is massive and I can't imagine there are many voters voting for Labour that are pro brexit, they will vote Reform or Tory whatever SKS says.

I've said before Labour will aim to do it in a second term, which has many potential issues.

I'm with you, it's difficult to tell much of a difference with policies - Labour have spoken about reforming the NHS (absolutely agree with this) but this was seen as more of a Tory policy, they have spoken about not agreeing with union requested pay rises and the tax is the highest it's ever been under the Tories.

I'm sure I'm alone in this on here, but I don't think SKS came over well yesterday linking the question on flip flopping to poor Brianna Ghey, seemed like a cheap comeback and given what was announced about the green policy being pulled, seemed pre arranged as a distraction.

Labour have the perfect chance to shake things up as a fresh start, not sure they will.

 

[beorhthelm]

Peter Tatchell says a 1% wealth tax on this country's billionaires would raise the £6bn a year required for the green fund. If that's true, why doesn't Starmer do that? As Tatchell pointed out, they will hardly notice as their wealth is going up by much more than that every year anyway.

so where does other £22bn each year come from? and is this the number one priority, ahead of health, social care, education, road, etc, etc.

the £28bn green pledge is an unfunded slush fund for unspecified spending. do we need £28bn a year on green programmes? much could be done with regulation changes (e.g. reject planning objections to new power infrastucture to renewables, give industry green light to nuclear power, hydrogen storage, carbon capture).

there are lots of other things they want to do. if they want to raise taxes (which they'll have to), they'll have many other demands.

 

[nicko31]

It's a perfect chance to put rejoining the EU into a manifesto, the gap between the two main parties is massive and I can't imagine there are many voters voting for Labour that are pro brexit, they will vote Reform or Tory whatever SKS says.

I've said before Labour will aim to do it in a second term, which has many potential issues.

I'm with you, it's difficult to tell much of a difference with policies - Labour have spoken about reforming the NHS (absolutely agree with this) but this was seen as more of a Tory policy, they have spoken about not agreeing with union requested pay rises and the tax is the highest it's ever been under the Tories.

I'm sure I'm alone in this on here, but I don't think SKS came over well yesterday linking the question on flip flopping to poor Brianna Ghey, seemed like a cheap comeback and given what was announced about the green policy being pulled, seemed pre arranged as a distraction.

Labour have the perfect chance to shake things up as a fresh start, not sure they will.

I'm not that convinced a re-join would get KS more than the 20pt lead he has already.

I'd rejoin tomorrow, but its for the birds unless both major parties are on board and / or FPTP is ditched. Tories created so much bad blood.

Rejoining the customs union perhaps to boost growth. Beggars belief the LD's aren't all over it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm not that convinced a re-join would get KS more than the 20pt lead he has already.

I'd rejoin tomorrow, but its for the birds unless both major parties are on board and / or FPTP is ditched. Tories created so much bad blood.

Rejoining the customs union perhaps to boost growth. Beggars belief the LD's aren't all over it.

20 pts is more than enough to get in and get back into some Union.

I'm sure if the EU let us join exiting would be made almost impossible, so wouldn't really matter what the Tories wanted

 

[WATFORD zero]

20 pts is more than enough to get in and get back into some Union.

I'm sure if the EU let us join exiting would be made almost impossible, so wouldn't really matter what the Tories wanted

How would that work ? You either join a Customs Union, abide by the rules and enjoy the advantages of being in it or you don't

How could a Customs Union make it 'almost impossible' for members to leave

I agree, of course that re-joining the Customs Union would be the biggest single positive impact on the British economy that any Political party could make. At least we would get back huge economic benefits even if it meant very little of no power.

 

[keaton]

I have repeatedly stated that income tax should be at the same % for all, with no exceptions, with the lowest paid (who would lose all that 'no tax below this income threshold' benefit) getting an offset by an increase in the minimum wage.

However this cuts no ice with many on the left who think that you should pay more tax as a % of income as you earn more.

If we can't agree with my sort of perspective then the management of income tax will require complex oversight, and will offer scope for offsetting and other wheezes. I am disappointed that the left don't see the value of fixed % tax. But not altogether surprised.

I think when you last mentioned you couldn't give any idea of how much of a percentage everyone would have to pay which suggested you hadn't really worked it out. As well as not really providing any benefits of it

 

[Commander]

I have repeatedly stated that income tax should be at the same % for all, with no exceptions, with the lowest paid (who would lose all that 'no tax below this income threshold' benefit) getting an offset by an increase in the minimum wage.

However this cuts no ice with many on the left who think that you should pay more tax as a % of income as you earn more.

If we can't agree with my sort of perspective then the management of income tax will require complex oversight, and will offer scope for offsetting and other wheezes. I am disappointed that the left don't see the value of fixed % tax. But not altogether surprised.

I fully agree with the idea in theory. I wonder what kind of percentage we would be talking about in practice. The tax system in this country is absolutely ludicrous at the moment, and there is absolutely no reason for it to be.

 

[Mustafa II]

It's a perfect chance to put rejoining the EU into a manifesto, the gap between the two main parties is massive and I can't imagine there are many voters voting for Labour that are pro brexit, they will vote Reform or Tory whatever SKS says.

You'd be surprised.

I'm pro-Brexit, left-wing and a potential Labour voter.

I'm likely not going to vote for Labour for other reasons (although obviously won't be voting Tory), but if they started a rejoin the EU campaign I'm definitely out.

 

[The Clamp]

Can’t imagine anyone would be silly enough not to support a return to the EU.

I think it’s been painfully demonstrated that we cannot survive on our own.

The world has changed. We need to be acting in Unions and working together. Without that, we wither and die. The world’s problems can only be solved by working together.

Back to the EU. Back to our senses.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's a perfect chance to put rejoining the EU into a manifesto, the gap between the two main parties is massive and I can't imagine there are many voters voting for Labour that are pro brexit, they will vote Reform or Tory whatever SKS says.

You'd be surprised.

I'm pro-Brexit, left-wing and a potential Labour voter.

I'm likely not going to vote for Labour for other reasons (although obviously won't be voting Tory), but if they started a rejoin the EU campaign I'm definitely out.

Thus proving his point

And you certainly don't surprise me

 

[Mustafa II]

Thus proving his point

And you certainly don't surprise me

To be fair I'll probably cave in and vote Labour, I usually do. Always tempted by Lib Dems but they're far too floppy that it turns me off.

However if Labour decided they were going to run a campaign to rejoin the EU, I'm 100% out.

 

[WATFORD zero]

To be fair I'll probably cave in and vote Labour, I usually do. Always tempted by Lib Dems but they're far too floppy that it turns me off.

However if Labour decided they were going to run a campaign to rejoin the EU, I'm 100% out.

I'm dying to know what it was that changed your mind in those 23 minutes.

I'd rather you were out and we were in. Most certainly the most sensible choice

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

To be fair I'll probably cave in and vote Labour, I usually do. Always tempted by Lib Dems but they're far too floppy that it turns me off.

However if Labour decided they were going to run a campaign to rejoin the EU, I'm 100% out.

So if Labour said they'd rejoin the EU, you'd refuse to vote for them and then vote for... the Lib Dems?