Should we pull the plug on immigration levels?

[sten_super]

The question you have to ask is why they choose to cvome to the Uk and not France, Germany, Holland etc. And if we really are full up and suffering the credit crunch then wouldn't that make it less likely for them to come?

This is what I was going to pick up on. BoF in an earlier post mentions 'fellow European nations should do their fair share'. Other European nations have just as free (in fact more free, as they don't have a channel to negotiate) borders, but Eastern Europeans have moved en masse to England, many of them not speaking any English until they get here (or learning some in preparation). The question we have to ask is why are they coming here above everywhere else? The answer, I suspect, is higher wages. If they can earn more here than anywhere else in Europe, why go anywhere else?

The Spanish mentions earlier in the thread that some British people can't earn enough in jobs in this country to live. If that is truly the case, why are they still here, why have they not moved abroad, exactly as the Eastern Europeans have done? It's because they can get a better deal from the state. Take that away, and our population problems would (in time) disapear.

 

[User removed 4]

The question you have to ask is why they choose to cvome to the Uk and not France, Germany, Holland etc. And if we really are full up and suffering the credit crunch then wouldn't that make it less likely for them to come?

BOGUS asylum seekers come here because we are an easy touch.

 

[Elder for England]

no.

my workforce is now about 65% immigrant because the english are too lazy/proud or whatever to drive a lorry or build a machine.

what stricter controls would you want BoF?

Or perhaps it's because the 'lazy/proud English' can't get a job with rates like 65% being immigrants?

 

[The Spanish]

This is what I was going to pick up on. BoF in an earlier post mentions 'fellow European nations should do their fair share'. Other European nations have just as free (in fact more free, as they don't have a channel to negotiate) borders, but Eastern Europeans have moved en masse to England, many of them not speaking any English until they get here (or learning some in preparation). The question we have to ask is why are they coming here above everywhere else? The answer, I suspect, is higher wages. If they can earn more here than anywhere else in Europe, why go anywhere else?

The Spanish mentions earlier in the thread that some British people can't earn enough in jobs in this country to live. If that is truly the case, why are they still here, why have they not moved abroad, exactly as the Eastern Europeans have done? It's because they can get a better deal from the state. Take that away, and our population problems would (in time) disapear.

think you will find emigration from the UK as at its highest level in recorded history. its push/pull migration too. there is an element of the benefits system stifling economic migration, but to blame British unemployment purely on the benefits system is simplistic beyond belief.

Are you saying if you cannot get a job and do not immediately f*** off out the country to solve that you are doing something wrong?

we have massive levels of migration to the South East from the rest of the UK from indigenous British people. THATS PART OF THE REASON THE SOUTH EAST IS THE MOST CROWDED PLACE IN EUROPE AND WHY WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. PEOPLE DO GET ON THEIR BIKE.

jesus wept there are some dummies about.

 

[Meade's Ball]

BOGUS asylum seekers come here because we are an easy touch.

I am a very easy touch, but unfortunately i can offer no reward.

There are current cases in which people who claimed asylum 20 years ago are being sent back to their "home country". Arrested and thrown on BA flights to their possible doom under the rule of regimes we openly despise. It´s the compassionless awfulness of this that shows how Tory "new Labour" have become.

 

[Nibble]

we should send 70% of them back. 20% to prison and keep 10% do do jobs which no English person should be expected to do (McDonalds, toilet attendants, retail etc). Then not allow anymore in unless it is a one in, one out policy, meaning that if one foreigner dies another can come in if they pass an interview and carry the cost of the buriel of the person they are replacing.

Wales would of course be used as a large prison for the immigrants and welsh people woul be used to staff it unpaid as prisoners themselves.

Scotland would be cleared of Porridge scoffers and turned into a 5* holiday resort (the countryside is gorgeous) free of charge for English people to use when they have had enough of mingling with foreigners.

This should help ease the tension I thnk.

 

[Meade's Ball]

we should send 70% of them back. 20% to prison and keep 10% do do jobs which no English person should be expected to do (McDonalds, toilet attendants, retail etc). Then not allow anymore in unless it is a one in, one out policy, meaning that if one foreigner dies another can come in if they pass an interview and carry the cost of the buriel of the person they are replacing.

Wales would of course be used as a large prison for the immigrants and welsh people woul be used to staff it unpaid as prisoners themselves.

Scotland would be cleared of Porridge scoffers and turned into a 5* holiday resort (the countryside is gorgeous) free of charge for English people to use when they have had enough of mingling with foreigners.

This should help ease the tension I thnk.

 

[Starry]

Or perhaps it's because the 'lazy/proud English' can't get a job with rates like 65% being immigrants?

they don't apply.

 

[User removed 4]

we should send 70% of them back. 20% to prison and keep 10% do do jobs which no English person should be expected to do (McDonalds, toilet attendants, retail etc). Then not allow anymore in unless it is a one in, one out policy, meaning that if one foreigner dies another can come in if they pass an interview and carry the cost of the buriel of the person they are replacing.

Wales would of course be used as a large prison for the immigrants and welsh people woul be used to staff it unpaid as prisoners themselves.

Scotland would be cleared of Porridge scoffers and turned into a 5* holiday resort (the countryside is gorgeous) free of charge for English people to use when they have had enough of mingling with foreigners.

This should help ease the tension I thnk.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

BOGUS asylum seekers come here because we are an easy touch.

Absolutely not true! The asylum seekers law ın the UK is the hardest in Western Europe.

 

[Gully]

they don't apply.

Which is precisely the reason why stopping immigration, or even worse deporting those who are already here, would be bad news...the quality of what is left wouldn't be sufficient to sustain our economy, we would be better off trying to address the problem with the element of the native population who are workshy dole bludgers.

 

[Nibble]

Absolutely not true! The asylum seekers law ın the UK is the hardest in Western Europe.

Is it not the case though, that once they are here it is very hard to deport? or is that just a myth by right wing supporters?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Which is precisely the reason why stopping immigration, or even worse deporting those who are already here, would be bad news...the quality of what is left wouldn't be sufficient to sustain our economy, we would be better off trying to address the problem with the element of the native population who are workshy dole bludgers.

Exactly, but how do you do that if there are a limited amount of jobs available as we are importing a workforce?

There are all sorts of ramifications of long term unemployment (through choice or not) and I feel that can be partially linked to the breakdown of the family.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Is it not the case though, that once they are here it is very hard to deport? or is that just a myth by right wing supporters?

if it was then it is not the case any more. New L are looking to "clean" the country. Just remember when Brown had a voice at the start of his disastrous reign and he talked of the return of "britishness" as his mission. Some of the elements of this plan do not relate to the "fairness and equality" his policital mouthpieces clug out now in his defence.

 

[Nibble]

if it was then it is not the case any more. New L are looking to "clean" the country. Just remember when Brown had a voice at the start of his disastrous reign and he talked of the return of "britishness" as his mission. Some of the elements of this plan do not relate to the "fairness and equality" his policital mouthpieces clug out now in his defence.

Yes, quite the success he has made of that policy.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Is it not the case though, that once they are here it is very hard to deport? or is that just a myth by right wing supporters?

It's difficult for most countries, not just the UK..... however UK has more deportations than any other Western European country.

 

[sten_super]

think you will find emigration from the UK as at its highest level in recorded history. its push/pull migration too. there is an element of the benefits system stifling economic migration, but to blame British unemployment purely on the benefits system is simplistic beyond belief.

Are you saying if you cannot get a job and do not immediately f*** off out the country to solve that you are doing something wrong?

we have massive levels of migration to the South East from the rest of the UK from indigenous British people. THATS PART OF THE REASON THE SOUTH EAST IS THE MOST CROWDED PLACE IN EUROPE AND WHY WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. PEOPLE DO GET ON THEIR BIKE.

jesus wept there are some dummies about.

At which point did I blame British unemployment on benefits? Did you actually read what I said, or have you just replied to what you wanted me to say?

In terms of migration, the question is who are migrating? I don't know if there are figures in terms of migrants (in and out) by occupation level (I suspect not!), but people leaving this country are (from those I know) people going from good jobs here to good or better abroad, they are not people without jobs here going abroad to get them. I am not, and did not, say that people should leave the country if they cannot find a job. However, the benefits system we currently have in this country has, by your own admission, on some level, stifled economic migration out of the country.

What is your point about the South East? If people move to the South East to get a job, find a job and take it then great, good for them.

The point I was trying (and failing, clearly) to make is that we live in a free market. Economic theory tells us that wages should in time equal across the free market. This is part of the reason that there have been significant wage increases in countries like Poland over the last couple of years. The idea is that people move to wherever the highest wages are available for their skillset. If the highest wages available (taking into account the costs and reluctance of people to move) are sitting on the dole in the UK, then we have a problem.

 

[Nibble]

It's difficult for most countries, not just the UK..... however UK has more deportations than any other Western European country.

cheers

 

[The Spanish]

At which point did I blame British unemployment on benefits? Did you actually read what I said, or have you just replied to what you wanted me to say?

In terms of migration, the question is who are migrating? I don't know if there are figures in terms of migrants (in and out) by occupation level (I suspect not!), but people leaving this country are (from those I know) people going from good jobs here to good or better abroad, they are not people without jobs here going abroad to get them. I am not, and did not, say that people should leave the country if they cannot find a job. However, the benefits system we currently have in this country has, by your own admission, on some level, stifled economic migration out of the country.

What is your point about the South East? If people move to the South East to get a job, find a job and take it then great, good for them.

The point I was trying (and failing, clearly) to make is that we live in a free market. Economic theory tells us that wages should in time equal across the free market. This is part of the reason that there have been significant wage increases in countries like Poland over the last couple of years. The idea is that people move to wherever the highest wages are available for their skillset. If the highest wages available (taking into account the costs and reluctance of people to move) are sitting on the dole in the UK, then we have a problem.

My point about the South East is that according to you and some posting on here, British people often do not get off their arses and migrate. They do. To here. Add to that unrestricted labour movement from the EU (and mass illegal migration) and you have an overcrowding problem that provokes these debates.

We only live in a free market until a bank collapses. We will witness a lot more how the economy is subject to state intervention over the next couple of weeks. Dont swallow the free market textbook whole there are many obstructions to it.

Skillsets. You really have not grasped the reality of this, your post reads more like an a level economics theory answer. i would hazard a guess that the vast majority of economic migrants to this country over the last decades only 'skillset' is being able bodied having few ties and lower wage expectations.

 

[looney]

Have recently undertaken some research into employment in the Agricultural Sector.

Most farms, especially arable are large and reqire large numbers of workers for harvest.

It is Cheaper and a lot easier to contact one employment agency in slovakia say, than advertise in local agencies to hire en masse. Both cheaper in agency fees and also wages if farmers are able to accomodate.

Thats why agricultural work is no longer advertised so a bit harsh calling people lazy. More like Farmers are greedy and the Government is stupid and incompetent, as the costs that the farmer doesn't pay are then a burden on everyone else. the displacement in employment and unemployment costs, inpact on local population resources. Costs of translators employed by local government, the police.

You may think the fruit and veg is cheaper but your paying more in other ways.


Btw
Who can find an online advert for a fruit picker or seasonal agricultural worker? Give it a go.....