[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

[stewart12]

Well thank goodness the hundreds of thousands of brave, selfless young people in WW2 took a different view, or I very much doubt you would have the freedoms you enjoy now.

did 100% of young people fight in the war?

or did we still need others to run the country?

you don't know how old I am, or what I do

 

[BigBod]

It's an absolute NO from me. I've served and I can't imagine serving with someone who doesn't want to be there. There is something very special about serving and the camaraderie that exists with your oppo's is very special, I don't believe you would get that with someone who has been pressganged.

 

[stewart12]

It's an absolute NO from me. I've served and I can't imagine serving with someone who doesn't want to be there. There is something very special about serving and the camaraderie that exists with your oppo's is very special, I don't believe you would get that with someone who has been pressganged.

exactly this.

 

[Zeberdi]

It's an absolute NO from me. I've served and I can't imagine serving with someone who doesn't want to be there. There is something very special about serving and the camaraderie that exists with your oppo's is very special, I don't believe you would get that with someone who has been pressganged.

Isn’t the whole point of a NON-COMPULSORY form of NS that it would only attract those who want to be there. Those that don’t want to serve, aren’t likely to sign up to something they don’t want to do are they?

This isn’t necessarily a binary choice between NO National Service or COMPULSORY National Service and the poll doesn’t reflect that either. Just saying. There are alternatives.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well thank goodness the hundreds of thousands of brave, selfless young people in WW2 took a different view, or I very much doubt you would have the freedoms you enjoy now.

They were mostly conscripted, and brave as they were, which I am not doubting for a second, I would think many of them echoed @stewart12 post that they wouldn't have wanted to fight in a war or volunteer to do it, although many may well have. There were supposedly 100k deserters from UK forces in WWII, and those that were conscripted that refused to fight and went to prison.

I suspect there were likely many brave men who ended up being effective brave soldiers, but were very much of the 'no way I want to fight in a war' opinion before the war and before they were conscripted.

 

[abc]

did 100% of young people fight in the war?

or did we still need others to run the country?

you don't know how old I am, or what I do

whats your age got to do with anything?

 

[abc]

They were mostly conscripted, and brave as they were, which I am not doubting for a second, I would think many of them echoed @stewart12 post that they wouldn't have wanted to fight in a war or volunteer to do it, although many may well have. There were supposedly 100k deserters from UK forces in WWII, and those that were conscripted that refused to fight and went to prison.

I suspect there were likely many brave men who ended up being effective brave soldiers, but were very much of the 'no way I want to fight in a war' opinion before the war and before they were conscripted.

Absolutely and thank goodness in the end they didn't take the stance "there's absolutely no way I'd fight in a war. Zero interest in that"

 

[BadFish]

Isn’t the whole point of a NON-COMPULSORY form of NS that it would only attract those who want to be there. Those that don’t want to serve, aren’t likely to sign up to something they don’t want to do are they?

This isn’t necessarily a binary choice between NO National Service or COMPULSORY National Service and the poll doesn’t reflect that either. Just saying. There are alternatives.

Is non compulsory national service really national service though? To be I would say no, it is more the offering of shorter stints in the army (to be fair I have no idea what the shortest one you can do is). Offer this with skme kind of qualification at the end and I am in favour of the idea. I wouldn't all it national service though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Absolutely and thank goodness in the end they didn't take the stance "there's absolutely no way I'd fight in a war. Zero interest in that"

Conscientious objectors usually served on farms or became stretcher bearers.

 

[abc]

Conscientious objectors usually served on farms or became stretcher bearers.

Conscientious objectors had religious or other morality based beliefs that allowed them not to carry weapons etc and I’m not sure being a stretcher bearer was any less dangerous or required less selflessness than being the front line soldier. Very different to saying ‘I’ve got zero interest’ which would not have enabled you to dodge conscription in WW2

 

[Justice]

A few years ago, I wanted some repointing done. I asked for quotes. Three never bothered replying, two quoted ridiculous prices, and one Polish bloke gave us a reasonable price.
Guess who got the job, and did a good job?

Guess who lives in a house with ten others and sends the majority of earnings out of the country.

 

[stewart12]

Absolutely and thank goodness in the end they didn't take the stance "there's absolutely no way I'd fight in a war. Zero interest in that"

like I said, there are lot's of ways to serve your country

I have zero interest in fighting in a war, and would be next to useless at it. Taking the opinion of someone who has actually been in our military, they wouldn't want to be fighting alongside amateurs and I agree, this would be a terrible idea and most would be canon fodder and my son would be without a father. There are plenty who are way more equipped than I. I'd be better used elsewhere.

Cheers

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Guess who lives in a house with ten others and sends the majority of earnings out of the country.

The one who did the job and did it well. Looking after a family back home isn't a crime.
That's why I said I would like to see more youngsters getting a trade, not square bashing.

 

[Justice]

The one who did the job and did it well. Looking after a family back home isn't a crime.
That's why I said I would like to see more youngsters getting a trade, not square bashing.

I doubt that will get your job done cheaper, by the time these young people are confident to work by themselves they will have mortgages/rent to pay.

 

[Zeberdi]

”… a public debate on conscription would be politically sensitive, but it is clear that the current approach is not working and that it is a critical national security risk”

Excellent article here on why the debate about national service/civic service although unwelcome is increasingly becoming a matter of national security…

NATO Societies Must be Ready for War

Since Russia’s 2022 large-scale invasion of Ukraine, NATO militaries have been getting ready to fight. Thus far, less attention has been given to societal readiness for war, but there are signs that this imbalance is starting to be addressed.

rusi.org

No need for disparaging remarks about young people - this debate has nothing to do with that but everything to do with military preparedness in what ever shape or form that needs to be.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I doubt that will get your job done cheaper, by the time these young people are confident to work by themselves they will have mortgages/rent to pay.

Who said I wanted a cheap job? I just wanted quotes and nobody could be bothered to supply them.

 

[GT49er]

Well, in today's increasingly libertarian society, where individual freedoms are paramount, and the absolute human right never to be made to do anything you don't want to do is sacrosanct .................... the re-introduction of 'must' into the lexicon would at least be - how should we say - interesting!

 

[Bold Seagull]

”… a public debate on conscription would be politically sensitive, but it is clear that the current approach is not working and that it is a critical national security risk”

Excellent article here on why the debate about national service/civic service although unwelcome is increasingly becoming a matter of national security…

NATO Societies Must be Ready for War

Since Russia’s 2022 large-scale invasion of Ukraine, NATO militaries have been getting ready to fight. Thus far, less attention has been given to societal readiness for war, but there are signs that this imbalance is starting to be addressed.

rusi.org

No need for disparaging remarks about young people - this debate has nothing to do with that but everything to do with military preparedness in what ever shape or form that needs to be.

Quite.

Also interesting we have a thread about our defence readiness, a potential need to introduce national service, while meanwhile the news leads with the government debating whether to cut national insurance or income tax in the budget.

Must be all okay then.

 

[Hampden Park]

Negative BT AR

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

Surely this is a hoax ?