[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

[Randy McNob]

Another step towards being the north Korea of Europe

 

[BadFish]

I sort of agree with you and I would be totally against national service etc but this mantra is arguably a contributory factor to why we are in our current moribund state. Society has become more and more fractured because too many people believe that they can do 'whatever they want' without personal responsibility or responsibility to others and society in general.

It's kind of tough for some people to feel like they have a responsibility to 'society' when 'society' dislikes them for being: too gay, too black, too brown, too ginger, too feminine, too masculine, too lactose intolerant, too like their coffee with frothy milk (apparently), too poor, too autistic, to hyperactive, too proud, too caring, too empathetic, too northern, too southern, too fat, too thin, too quiet, too outspoken . . . you get the picture the list goes on and on.

Many people feel well on the outs and think 'f*** society!'

Maybe society should start being less judgy about those it considers different to bring people back into the fold.

 

[Bakero]

Have clicked compulsory 12 months but only because 1 month is not enough … would probably go 4 months compulsory- with extended term option. Fully paid at say adult minimum wage- full board residential. Should be something like my 4 months in Haslar - 6am …. (Full scream from instructor) EVERYBODY IN C DORM ON YOUR FEET!! - wake up - stand up - start grafting- polish the floor make bed pack full uniform March to breakfast 1 hours drill in the yard and 1 hours PE all before 9am … then continue for rest of day 1 hour recreation time in evening

Best thread title in ages

Lucky we've got that magic money tree to pay for barracks, uniforms, equipment, facilities, wages, auxiliary staff, meals, and to plug the gap left in the economy by the workers at boot camp.

 

[Rdodge30]

Lucky we've got that magic money tree to pay for barracks, uniforms, equipment, facilities, wages, auxiliary staff, meals, and to plug the gap left in the economy by the workers at boot camp.

Putting them in jail is free?

 

[beorhthelm]

It's kind of tough for some people to feel like they have a responsibility to 'society' when 'society' dislikes them for being: too gay, too black, too brown, too ginger, too feminine, too masculine, too lactose intolerant, too like their coffee with frothy milk (apparently), too poor, too autistic, to hyperactive, too proud, too caring, too empathetic, too northern, too southern, too fat, too thin, too quiet, too outspoken . . . you get the picture the list goes on and on.

Many people feel well on the outs and think 'f*** society!'

Maybe society should start being less judgy about those it considers different to bring people back into the fold.

maybe some national service will give then common purpose?

on other hand, the youth today wouldnt be able to handle this, far too protected and wrapped up on their own individualism to cope with even some civilian let alone military civil service.

 

[BadFish]

maybe some national service will give then common purpose?

Optimistic, but maybe

 

[Bakero]

Putting them in jail is free?

Do we currently jail all young people for a minimum of 4 months?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

maybe some national service will give then common purpose?

on other hand, the youth today wouldnt be able to handle this, far to protected and wrapped up on their own individualism to cope with even some civilian let alone military civil service.

What a low opinion you have of young people. Does it make you feel better about yourself to look down on a whole section of our society?
Young people today are as diverse as they ever were. Some are still joining cadets, some are at university, some do well at sports, some like fashion and design, some are lazy, some are home loving etc etc
No, let’s label them all as individuals.

 

[BadFish]

on other hand, the youth today wouldnt be able to handle this, far too protected and wrapped up on their own individualism to cope with even some civilian let alone military civil service.

Ahh the old 'youth of today' line.


The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Its as true today as it was when people started it.

 

[Bakero]

What a low opinion you have of young people. Does it make you feel better about yourself to look down on a whole section of our society?
Young people today are as diverse as they ever were. Some are still joining cadets, some are at university, some do well at sports, some like fashion and design, some are lazy, some are home loving etc etc
No, let’s label them all as individuals.

Ahh the old 'youth of today' line.


The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Its as true today as it was when people started it.

Generational Blame: A Brief History

A fascinating look at the phenomenon and recurring theme throughout history of every generation blaming the younger generation.

arapahoelibraries.org

 

[BadFish]

What a low opinion you have of young people. Does it make you feel better about yourself to look down on a whole section of our society?
Young people today are as diverse as they ever were. Some are still joining cadets, some are at university, some do well at sports, some like fashion and design, some are lazy, some are home loving etc etc
No, let’s label them all as individuals.

Or we can lump they all together, moan about them and label them as disrespectful, feckless etc etc.

Then wonder why they don't respect us or our 'society'.

One thing I am sure of is that the surest way to stop someone of any age respecting you is to treat them with no respect.

This thread is littered with lazy and disrespectful generalisations about young people. None of which fittingly describe my kids, their friends, my friends kids or the majority of the young peopke I teach/coach/work with.

 

[beorhthelm]

Ahh the old 'youth of today' line.

it was you that brought it up, listing reasons they wouldn't feel part of society or contribute to one. i'm just agreeing you're probably right.

 

[BadFish]

it was you that brought it up, listing reasons they wouldn't feel part of society or contribute to one. i'm just agreeing you're probably right.

Fair enough but aside from some of the things on the list being given new names and being more understood it really hasn't changed since for generations.

 

[abc]

It's kind of tough for some people to feel like they have a responsibility to 'society' when 'society' dislikes them for being: too gay, too black, too brown, too ginger, too feminine, too masculine, too lactose intolerant, too like their coffee with frothy milk (apparently), too poor, too autistic, to hyperactive, too proud, too caring, too empathetic, too northern, too southern, too fat, too thin, too quiet, too outspoken . . . you get the picture the list goes on and on.

Many people feel well on the outs and think 'f*** society!'

Maybe society should start being less judgy about those it considers different to bring people back into the fold.

Yes and that's where the media, politicians etc have to take their responsibility. I don't believe half of the 'dislike issues' you have listed would be on people's radar if it wasn't for the Daily Mail et al whipping up negative and ultimately destructive stories to sell their papers or MPs for their own political games rather than for the good of society (the latter actually being their job).

 

[sparkie]

You have taken my comment out of context - This whole thread is addressing what the media and army leaders have been talking about - I said I have no idea what a National Service would look like and am not promulgated anything - I said some form of non-compulsory National Service might be a good idea as something that that could be part of the overall debate but certainly not advocating it. Bringing back any shape or form of National Service however certainly wouldn’t be for the intended purpose of giving young people life skills and volunteering opportunities or helping them apply to further education - there are plenty of those opportunities including the DoE (as also discussed up thread) - the idea/point of any form of national service (whether it be compulsory or otherwise (along the lines that other Countries in the EU /Eastern Europe are beginning to introduce and MSM is discussing ) is to increase preparedness should NATO be engaged in a direct conflict/come under attack with a non-NATO country like Russia.


Anyway, I am backing out of this thread. I have no strong opinions either way so refuse to be drawn The possibility of conscription or a voluntary form of military service came up in various news stories last week in the context of Ukraine and given how significant that is, I thought it worthy of a poll or discussion..especially when there is a consensus that our conventional forces have been substantially reduced since the end of the cold war and that may need revisiting.

UK armed forces not ready for high-intensity war, MPs warn

The armed forces are losing people faster than they can recruit them, says committee of MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Unfortunately this whole subject fights against the narrative that "Daily Mail readers want National Service back to sort out the lazy youth of today because it never did them any harm" - which has been pushed into our brains for decades.

Rightly, you are trying to get beyond this brainwashing narrative and get at the core issue - the country needs to be as prepared as possible to deal with anything an aggressive Russia inflicts on it. It's a vital issue - and a plan needs to be looked into.

Dropping the name "National Service" and rebounding it would be a basic starting point.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Unfortunately this whole subject fights against the narrative that "Daily Mail readers want National Service back to sort out the lazy youth of today because it never did them any harm" - which has been pushed into our brains for decades.

Rightly, you are trying to get beyond this brainwashing narrative and get at the core issue - the country needs to be as prepared as possible to deal with anything an aggressive Russia inflicts on it. It's a vital issue - and a plan needs to be looked into.

Dropping the name "National Service" and rebounding it would be a basic starting point.

Like anything, you improve your readiness by funding it properly, not by compulsory service which goes against all our ideas of democratic freedom and choice.

Being prepared costs money, it's as simple as that.

 

[dangull]

Maybe, if we still have a world empire to defend.

 

[stewart12]

there's absolutely no way I'd fight in a war. Zero interest in that.

Those calling for national service can go ahead and fill their boots. There's lots of ways to "serve my country" that don't involve having my legs blown off

 

[abc]

Like anything, you improve your readiness by funding it properly, not by compulsory service which goes against all our ideas of democratic freedom and choice.

We live in a democracy so if 'the people' vote for a form of national service then that would not be the case. I don't think for a minute a vote would go that way but 'democratic freedom and choice' cant just mean 'I can do whatever I want'. Agree with your main point re funding though, and perhaps if the choice was simply 'national service or 2p on tax to fund the professional armed forces properly' we would end up in the right place for our security and with a general consensus in our society.

 

[abc]

there's absolutely no way I'd fight in a war. Zero interest in that.

Those calling for national service can go ahead and fill their boots. There's lots of ways to "serve my country" that having my legs blown off

Well thank goodness the hundreds of thousands of brave, selfless young people in WW2 took a different view, or I very much doubt you would have the freedoms you enjoy now.