[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

[BadFish]

A little respect Would be a good start. Not for authority per se ( they've proved themselves to be well worthy of disrespect) but for your fellow man.

If you're in your mid teens and delivering all the hallmarks of being a weapons grade scrote, planning on leaving school with no perceivable qualifications to be a professional drain and irritant then some form of additional training must be a good thing. . . Teaching them to kill people wouldn't be on my list, but you get the jist.

My guess is those you are describing aren't going to learn much respect from stint in the army. It would probably be a waste of time and money.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don’t believe this myth, if you are a tradesman and choose to work for a biggish company the wages offered are bang average which isn’t screaming a shortage of tradesman. I’ve seen it way busier than what it currently is.

A few years ago, I wanted some repointing done. I asked for quotes. Three never bothered replying, two quoted ridiculous prices, and one Polish bloke gave us a reasonable price.
Guess who got the job, and did a good job?

 

[WATFORD zero]

A little respect Would be a good start. Not for authority per se ( they've proved themselves to be well worthy of disrespect) but for your fellow man.

If you're in your mid teens and delivering all the hallmarks of being a weapons grade scrote, planning on leaving school with no perceivable qualifications to be a professional drain and irritant then some form of additional training must be a good thing. . . Teaching them to kill people wouldn't be on my list, but you get the jist.

Now the prisons are full, the justice system is falling apart and the police are so underfunded that they can't manage, dump the ASBOs on the army type thing

 

[zefarelly]

My guess is those you are describing aren't going to learn much respect from stint in the army. It would probably be a waste of time and money.

There are full apprenticeships at the company I work for, and some of the lads have excelled, You can see they may well not have under different circumstances, there are also some older guys, ex military . . . Weapons grade scrotes in their younger years, by their own admission, one of them still is IMO. But they have skills and are assets to the company and society as a whole . . . I wouldn't wish the army on anyone, but a form of training/education on a national level can't be a bad idea.

 

[Algernon]

Considering some subjects that are taught in schools nowadays couldn't we teach some form of basic warcraft or soldiering at least?
Maybe how to take apart and reassemble the latest machine gun or how to zero in a sniper rifle.
Possibly which part of an enemy to shoot so he causes the most inconvenience to his comrades, how to sneak up behind an armed guard and send him to sleep....permanently.
Or even how to hack the enemy's cyber defence systems?

Pre conflict life skills 1.0.1
Part ready for further murderous education and conscription.

 

[zefarelly]

Now the prisons are full, the justice system is falling apart and the police are so underfunded that they can't manage, dump the ASBOs on the army type thing

Half of them join the army voluntarily, it legitimises their frustration based violent streak . . . . Its either that, drug dealing or football.

I think thats a pretty good sweeping generalisation for this early on a Sunday morning. . .

 

[BadFish]

There are full apprenticeships at the company I work for, and some of the lads have excelled, You can see they may well not have under different circumstances, there are also some older guys, ex military . . . Weapons grade scrotes in their younger years, by their own admission, one of them still is IMO. But they have skills and are assets to the company and society as a whole . . . I wouldn't wish the army on anyone, but a form of training/education on a national level can't be a bad idea.

Surely education ticks these boxes? Rather than finding training through the army perhaps the education system can be looked at and funded?

 

[heathgate]

Germany have now reached >2% .... Canada and Turkey continue to drag their feet.

 

[cjd]

A few years ago, I wanted some repointing done. I asked for quotes. Three never bothered replying, two quoted ridiculous prices, and one Polish bloke gave us a reasonable price.
Guess who got the job, and did a good job?

If this is like an Agatha Christie issue, I, m going to suggest it was the second one of the three that never bothered to reply.

What do I win..?

 

[withdeanwombat]

Hell yes! Make all the young layabouts join up. Why should they have the same rights and freedoms I had as a young layabout?

 

[BLOCK F]

No, not in any form.
By the way, I am 75.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I think a voluntary National Civic Service scheme might not be a bad idea however although I have no idea what that might look like. Perhaps a tiered level of commitment and something available to every young person to engage in carrying out work in the community/civic duties etc and something that gives them life skills and a sense of national pride.

Something like the Duke of Edinburgh scheme, you mean?

 

[Zeberdi]

Same thing, funding our armed force to meet nato agreement.

Which countries in the Nato alliance are paying their fair share on defence?

The alliance expects each member nation to spend at least 2% of its gross domestic product on defence, but plenty are falling short.

www.forces.net

Lots of big hitters here that don't, UK is just over the 2%

Chart is from 2023, so could be slightly out of date.

We have certainly reduced our spending at a time when NATO needs more investment not less and spending lower percentage of our GPD than Countries that form the NATO axis (understandably) :

NATO Spending by Country 2024

Latest trends show EU and allies have increased NATO defence spending

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_222664.htm

Something like the Duke of Edinburgh scheme, you mean?

NO This has already been addressed up thread - that is not what the army leaders or media are talking about at all.

 

[A1X]

Germany have now reached >2% .... Canada and Turkey continue to drag their feet.

I think you can understand why Canada are reluctant to. They’re not a great expeditionary force, and never really have been. They’re not a nuclear power. They face no real direct threat.

 

[Goldstone1976]

NO This has already been addressed up thread - that is not what the army leaders or media are talking about at all.

I wasn’t addressing what the army leaders or media may have been talking about; I was addressing what you promulgated. The DofE does indeed exactly capture what you typed about your own opinion.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think you can understand why Canada are reluctant to. They’re not a great expeditionary force, and never really have been. They’re not a nuclear power. They face no real direct threat.

However that is not what they signed up and agreed to, they should really be meeting the 2 percent.

Proves trumps point, countries just expecting the USA to do it

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Out of interest, what are the skills that they could teach to help youngsters integrate into adulthood better?

Respect is top of my list. Respect for others peoples property and the environment...and the way they dress....themselves!
I'm sure my elders thought the same of me, but you just want to grab them by the shoulders and vigorously shake some sense into them!

 

[Zeberdi]

I wasn’t addressing what the army leaders or media may have been talking about; I was addressing what you promulgated. The DofE does indeed exactly capture what you typed about your own opinion.

You have taken my comment out of context - This whole thread is addressing what the media and army leaders have been talking about - I said I have no idea what a National Service would look like and am not promulgated anything - I said some form of non-compulsory National Service might be a good idea as something that that could be part of the overall debate but certainly not advocating it. Bringing back any shape or form of National Service however certainly wouldn’t be for the intended purpose of giving young people life skills and volunteering opportunities or helping them apply to further education - there are plenty of those opportunities including the DoE (as also discussed up thread) - the idea/point of any form of national service (whether it be compulsory or otherwise (along the lines that other Countries in the EU /Eastern Europe are beginning to introduce and MSM is discussing ) is to increase preparedness should NATO be engaged in a direct conflict/come under attack with a non-NATO country like Russia.


Anyway, I am backing out of this thread. I have no strong opinions either way so refuse to be drawn The possibility of conscription or a voluntary form of military service came up in various news stories last week in the context of Ukraine and given how significant that is, I thought it worthy of a poll or discussion..especially when there is a consensus that our conventional forces have been substantially reduced since the end of the cold war and that may need revisiting.

UK armed forces not ready for high-intensity war, MPs warn

The armed forces are losing people faster than they can recruit them, says committee of MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BadFish]

Respect is top of my list. Respect for others peoples property and the environment...and the way they dress....themselves!
I'm sure my elders thought the same of me, but you just want to grab them by the shoulders and vigorously shake some sense into them!

To be honest I don't, most of the youth I encounter are decent and respectful. They do dress like they are going to a fancy dress party but if the youth don't dress in a way us old farts find weird then they ain't doing it right.

 

[Goldstone1976]

You have taken my comment out of context - This whole thread is addressing what the media and army leaders have been talking about - I said I have no idea what a National Service would look like and am not promulgated anything - I said it might be a good idea as something that that could be part of the overall debate but certainly not advocating it. Bringing back some form of National Service however certainly wouldn’t be for the purpose of giving young people life skills and volunteering opportunities or helping them apply to further education - there are plenty of those opportunities including the DoE (as also discussed up thread) - the idea/point of any form of national service (whether it be compulsory or otherwise (along the lines that other Countries in the EU /Eastern Europe are beginning to introduce and MSM is discussing ) is to increase preparedness should NATO be engaged in a direct conflict/come under attack with a non-NATO country like Russia.


Anyway, I am backing out of this thread. I have no strong opinions either way so refuse to be drawn The possibility of conscription or a voluntary form of military service came up in various news stories last week in the context of Ukraine and given how significant that is, I thought it worthy of a poll or discussion..especially when there is a consensus that our conventional forces have been substantially reduced since the end of the cold war and that may need revisiting.

Not out of context at all. I quoted an entire paragraph - which started with the words “I think…”; that’s generally taken as a reasonable indicator that what follows is an opinion.

You also mused about “…a tiered level of commitment…”, which is exactly what the DofE offers.

Your assertions now in relation to my posts about what you posted and about whether what you posted amounted to an opinion or not are imo disingenuous.

If you don’t think that the DofE meets what you advocated then fair enough. I think it does.

“Im backing out of this thread”? I doubt it. I am though.