[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

[Zeberdi]

I'm sorry @Zebedee but what is this 'future conflict with Russia etc' that you are envisaging ?

I’m not envisaging anything thing. (I assume @Zebedee was an auto complete typo )

This debate in the media/government circles is taking place because leading military personalities have warned that we are underprepared should NATO become embroiled in a regional conflict in Europe.

UK army chief warns citizens to prepare for massive war with Russia

The top general likens the situation in Ukraine to the crises of 1914 and 1937 and insists that only 'citizen armies' will be able to defeat the coming onslaught on the West's way of life.

www.euronews.com

Time to 'think the unthinkable' and consider UK conscription, says Britain's former top NATO commander

General Sir Richard Sherriff tells Sky News that even if Russia is defeated in the war against Ukraine, it is going to remain determined to rebuild another empire, subjugate Ukraine, and then move on to other ex-Soviet countries, like NATO members. That could mean war with Russia.

news.sky.com

Latvia and Estonia (both NATO members) have very specific security concerns - one of which has prompted them in recent days to call for NATO forces to be bolstered and suggest conscription in NATO countries.

Not sure why people keep bringing up the Daily Mail - this has been reported across the board in MSM.

Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back? – DW – 06/11/2023

After the collapse of communism and the end of the Cold War in Europe, many countries abolished compulsory military service. But in the wake of the war in Ukraine, several are considering bringing it back.

www.dw.com

Are you forgetting the principle of Collective Defence? It won’t be Russia at our shores that will demand our troops are involved but Russia threatening the borders of of Latvia and Estonia …or any other NATO country.

 

[Somethingdean]

One assumes you have absolved your dear self from lifting a finger owing to your advanced years.

In which case......it's not your shout, is it?

It's never down to us citizens is it. The government decide such matters. I was lucky to never get conscripted, but I would've had to go to war, if that is what my government decided. There is no choice, that's the point.
That's how a functioning society works I'm afraid. Selflessness.

 

[Boys 9d]

I voted No. BTW My age group was the first to benefit from the repeal of National Service in the 60s.

 

[heathgate]

I'm sorry @Zebedee but what is this 'future conflict with Russia etc' that you are envisaging and think we should be preparing for ?

I'm really struggling to think of a situation where Britain's safety will be improved in any way by having a few hundred thousand conscripts dug in along the coast of Britain. Future (and current) threats to Britain will be from terrorism, economic and technological attacks.
There are quite a few reasons behind various groups raising 'National Service' as an issue, but surely there is no case for it 'improving' Britain's safety

Who's to say that a national service model would not include IT related roles?... our yoof, if little else, are wholly engaged when it comes to 'tech' themes.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’m not envisaging anything thing. (I assume @Zebedee was an auto complete typo )

This debate in the media/government circles is taking place because leading military personalities have warned that we are underprepared should NATO become embroiled in a regional conflict in Europe.

UK army chief warns citizens to prepare for massive war with Russia

The top general likens the situation in Ukraine to the crises of 1914 and 1937 and insists that only 'citizen armies' will be able to defeat the coming onslaught on the West's way of life.

www.euronews.com

Time to 'think the unthinkable' and consider UK conscription, says Britain's former top NATO commander

General Sir Richard Sherriff tells Sky News that even if Russia is defeated in the war against Ukraine, it is going to remain determined to rebuild another empire, subjugate Ukraine, and then move on to other ex-Soviet countries, like NATO members. That could mean war with Russia.

news.sky.com

Latvia and Estonia (both NATO members) have very specific security concerns - one of which has prompted them in recent days to call for NATO forces to be bolstered and suggest conscription in NATO countries.

Not sure why people keep bringing up the Daily Mail - this has been reported across the board in MSM.

Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back? – DW – 06/11/2023

After the collapse of communism and the end of the Cold War in Europe, many countries abolished compulsory military service. But in the wake of the war in Ukraine, several are considering bringing it back.

www.dw.com

Sorry, that was a typo.

Generals trying to justify increasing their forces isn't really news, and there's absolutely nothing there about making Britain safer

 

[heathgate]

I think if there was a major conflict that required drafts they'd be enough volunteers to double our military size.

Much is made of the size of our Army compared to our allies and potential enemies but I feel the British army is more about quality over quantity. Russia have shown that having one of the largest armies doesn't necessarily mean you'll be effective on the battlefield. Poor training, low morale, antiquated weaponry and poor military infrastructure has exposed them in their invasion of Ukraine.

Technology.... that's where it will be at.... flying and shielding against small battlefield drones... IT espionage.....

 

[WATFORD zero]

Who's to say that a national service model would not include IT related roles?... our yoof, if little else, are wholly engaged when it comes to 'tech' themes.

Numbers of staff (whether through National service or otherwise) isn't the limiter in technology, drones, espionage etc. It's budget constrained, something that isn't fixed by spending yet more money kitting out, training and maintaining a few hundred thousand conscripts.

 

[birthofanorange]

I didn't say anything about soy milk "turning you gay". I just meant that if the younger generation weren't so busy spending their money on fancy drinks, they could be spending their time learning a useful skill, like firing a gun and constructing a fall-out shelter.

Wind-up....shirley?

 

[Tiger Barb]

I think there are a couple of questions that sit before this poll:

do you foresee this country being under direct threat from a foreign power in the next 5-10 years?
if so, should the country defend itself, way of life and values?
If yes, then how best do we best prepare for this?
If no, we dont need to do anything.

 

[Scappa]

On compulsory military service - only if those who complain about "the youth of today" being feckless/entitled etc go first and show us how it's done and lead the front line when shit hits the fan.

 

[Seagull58]

Firstly, declaration that I'm old so it wouldn't affect me (cards on the table and all that).

I'm not quite sure how a voluntary community based scheme is of any benefit to the armed forces? What skills would you learn in the community that will benefit in the theatre of war.

I also don't see the benefit of it being voluntary community service because I can't see you getting any more people to commit to it than those that volunteer anyway. If you were going to do it should be compulsory. 6 months after finishing either sixth form or finishing your first degree. You could offer 6 months in one hit or two weeks a year for the next 13!

As for the military option, I believe this has been prompted by comments from Latvia. We are in a very different position as Russia isn't sitting on our doorstep and I guess Trump's recent comments may mean those countries in close proximity to Putin don't feel reassured that membership of Nato is all it's cracked up to be!!

Cooking, cleaning, washing up, first aid/nursing, driving/logistics, stacking and carrying boxes and crates, radio communications.

 

[Zeberdi]

Sorry, that was a typo.

Generals trying to justify increasing their forces isn't really news, and there's absolutely nothing there about making Britain safer

You probably missed my edit but this debate is specifically taking place within the context of NATO’s responsibility under the principle of collective defence and what is happening in Eastern Europe.

Britain does not need to be under direct threat in order for our forces to be called upon to engage in direct conflict. Any NATO country under the direct threat of attack or attack requires a collective response from NATO members. It is not about making Britain ‘safer’ (at least directly - I mean some politicians argue that bombing Yemen makes us ‘safer’ so it depends on who you speak to) - the argument is that it is about us having the preparedness to play our part should any other NATO country comes under attack. (Which personally I think is very unlikely but it is a deterrent as much as anything I suppose).

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Yes. It should be compulsory. If there is a war, it is the job of the younger generation who are more able-bodied to defend our land. There can be no objections. I know the soy latte generation find the concept of self-sacrifice completely alien but it is a pertinent one. Remember the reason we are typing these words in English today is because of the brave heroes in the 1940s.

 

[Seagull58]

I think there are a couple of questions that sit before this poll:

do you foresee this country being under direct threat from a foreign power in the next 5-10 years?
if so, should the country defend itself, way of life and values?
If yes, then how best do we best prepare for this?
If no, we dont need to do anything.

Any NATO country under direct threat, not just our country.
The answer to that is probably yes.

 

[heathgate]

Numbers of staff (whether through National service or otherwise) isn't the limiter in technology, drones, espionage etc. It's budget constrained, something that isn't fixed by spending yet more money kitting out, training and maintaining a few hundred thousand conscripts.

Less boots on the ground, more bums on seats.... a financial trade off.

 

[Justice]

Cooking, cleaning, washing up, first aid/nursing, driving/logistics, stacking and carrying boxes and crates, radio communications.

Getting your legs blown off the government is then happy to see you begging on the streets homeless. You would have to have a screw loose to fight for this current mob.

 

[Seagull58]

That is why the idea of community based schemes have been muted. Compared to Army Reserves, this would not involve people joining the army!

I think Cameron introduced something along the lines of a voluntary national service type scheme about a decade ago - not sure how successful it was though but the idea was to get young people engaged in something that would give them a sense of national pride-( Not that I’m advocating Cameron’s version)

All parties have favoured some type of national service/civic scheme

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/towards-national-civic-service/

You mean "mooted", right?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As a Voluntary option then I can see some benefits it would give teenagers the opportunity to grow away from home and to experience military life if it also provide some life training to give youngsters a leg up towards a job and it’s attendance was viewed positively by employers then it could be of benefit to all.
If they found it was not for them then after a year they can return home or just don’t sign up for it in the first place

My youngsters joined the Air Cadets and had a great time. My grandson did 6 months with the Princes Trust when he decided A levels weren’t for him part of the way through Sixth form.
There is plenty for youngsters to do voluntarily.
What I would like to see is a return to proper apprenticeships. We need builders, sparks, plumbers etc.

 

[Seagull58]

Getting your legs blown off the government is then happy to see you begging on the streets homeless. You would have to have a screw loose to fight for this current mob.

That is not what I said. I answered a question.

 

[Zeberdi]

You mean "mooted", right?

Yes, of course - Freudian slip