Should Tube leaders go to prison?

[Stumpy Tim]

Good for you. I'm the same but then I have a level of comfort which enables me to do this, possibly like you. Not everyone does though. If the drivers were properly compensated then fine, but the offer is a piss take.

£50k a year for driving a train isn't proper compensation?

 

[Steve.S]

"The unions rejected a "final" pay offer from LU which included a 2% rise this year and £2,000 for drivers on the weekend night Tube service. The typical salary for a Tube driver is £50,000 a year, the RMT said, but the unions maintain the new plans would be disruptive to their members' lives. They claim some employees are concerned they will have to work more overnight shifts"

£50k for driving a train isn't enough! They're getting an above inflation pay rise & a payment of £2,000. And basically they're concerned they might have to work extra overnight shifts. Absolute joke.

You know what, if I don't like my job I get another one. Why don't they go & get a new job if they don't like this one. Ah that's right, they can't because they don't have any other skills.

You seem to know a lot about what's on offer, were you part of the negotiations? I would bet you are just repeating the headline points from the media. You are right they were offered all the good points you have pointed out, however that was put to the unions Monday lunchtime and they were told they had to accept the offer by the evening, they had no time to consult with their members, so all that you mention in your post was not voted on and formed no part of the strike. Unions are there to protect workers and on the whole do a good job, they protect workers from exploitation, it's nothing to do with liking their job, it's about their employers trying to make changes to their working conditions.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I'm not known on here for my left leaning views....

but on this occasion I can see the employees point.

Night shifts screw your family/social life big time, I would strike if the employer was refusing to pay a night shift allowance. Two grand is what? One nice holiday in Spain for a family of four, excluding spending money, doesn't go far does it?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

You seem to know a lot about what's on offer, were you part of the negotiations? I would bet you are just repeating the headline points from the media. You are right they were offered all the good points you have pointed out, however that was put to the unions Monday lunchtime and they were told they had to accept the offer by the evening, they had no time to consult with their members, so all that you mention in your post was not voted on and formed no part of the strike. Unions are there to protect workers and on the whole do a good job, they protect workers from exploitation, it's nothing to do with liking their job, it's about their employers trying to make changes to their working conditions.

So you don't think they could have postponed the strike while they considered this? I don't buy that. I do have sympathy with the night shifts issue - I really do. But surely that should form part of negotiations, rather than walking out. That's why I have no sympathy right now.

I don't work in London by the way, so this doesn't affect me. I just see this as typical union politics

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

£50k a year for driving a train isn't proper compensation?

It seems a pretty responsible job to me, so 50k seems fair for the regular day work.

 

[Simster]

I did answer it. I said that if I didn't like any changes in my job I would resign. I don't have the option of holding the public to ransom. And by the way, I work through the night if I need to and don't when I don't need to.

I haven't had a pay rise since I can remember.

I wonder if you'd be so happy taking the rough with the smooth if you were on 50k (and having to live in London and pay London living expenses) and were then expected to work unsociable hours for a tenner a week.

And comparing your situation with theirs is ludicrous. Your experience of working unsociable hours (and mine for that matter) is sitting up at home in your pants finishing a presentation on a lap top - part of your remit when we took on our relatively well paid jobs. Not hauling our arses to an underground station to clock on at 2am, which was not in our agreed terms of employment when we took the job.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not known on here for my left leaning views....

but on this occasion I can see the employees point.

Night shifts screw your family/social life big time, I would strike if the employer was refusing to pay a night shift allowance. Two grand is what? One nice holiday in Spain for a family of four, excluding spending money, doesn't go far does it?

See my case in point!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fancy a pint?

I'd love one, but some ***** are on strike so I can't get to you.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I wonder if you'd be so happy taking the rough with the smooth if you were on 50k (and having to live in London and pay London living expenses) and were then expected to work unsociable hours for a tenner a week.

And comparing your situation with theirs is ludicrous. Your experience of working unsociable hours (and mine for that matter) is sitting up at home in your pants finishing a presentation on a lap top - part of your remit when we took on our relatively well paid jobs. Not hauling our arses to an underground station to clock on at 2am, which was not in our agreed terms of employment when we took the job.

Ok. If I my company told me I had to relocate to Mumbai, for example, I would quit. As I say, negotiations should (and I'm sure will) include caps on how many night shifts someone will be asked to do.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I'd love one, but some ***** are on strike so I can't get to you.

I have to go to work now. It's a liberty I tell you

 

[Simster]

Ok. If I my company told me I had to relocate to Mumbai, for example, I would quit. As I say, negotiations should (and I'm sure will) include caps on how many night shifts someone will be asked to do.

More accurately, you'd receive a tidy six figure pay off and walk into another job paying considerably more than 50k (or 40k and living in Brighton).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

More accurately, you'd receive a tidy six figure pay off and walk into another job paying considerably more than 50k (or 40k and living in Brighton).

Quite. Not everyone has this level of financial security, professional ability and general confidence....and some employers play on this.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

More accurately, you'd receive a tidy six figure pay off and walk into another job paying considerably more than 50k (or 40k and living in Brighton).

WTF. No I wouldn't!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not known on here for my left leaning views....

but on this occasion I can see the employees point.

Night shifts screw your family/social life big time, I would strike if the employer was refusing to pay a night shift allowance. Two grand is what? One nice holiday in Spain for a family of four, excluding spending money, doesn't go far does it?

And I agree with you on this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

WTF. No I wouldn't!

Lovely stuff. This rivals when Ed went up against David

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Everyone should do their upmost to be part of a Union so they can get support when their employer tries to **** them over.

 

[Simster]

WTF. No I wouldn't!

Yes you would - if you'd been working at your employers for a decade or so before they decided to change your terms and conditions.

 

[smudge]

Just wish we had a union that stood up for us like they have. As a seafarer on a Bahamas registered ship under American ownership, you pretty much have zero rights.
Their attitude is "If you don't like it, there are plenty of other people who will take your job".

If only we had someone like the late Bob Crow. Be good to see a cruise ship unable to sail because of the crew protesting about their pay & conditions.
Don't get me wrong, my salary is ok, (although I breach Maritime Labor Law every week with the amount of hours I do) but the regular crew from say, Philippines, Caribbean, Indonesia, Nicaragua etc. 8-10 month contracts working every day then maximum of 2 months off before coming back. Don't know how they do it.

Up the workers!

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Yes you would - if you'd been working at your employers for a decade or so before they decided to change your terms and conditions.

Are you mental? You think I would be given a pay-off of £100k?

 

[Simster]

Are you mental? You think I would be given a pay-off of £100k?

Yes. The bloke behind me was made redundant from Citibank after 9 years and walked off with 90k, and he earnt considerably less than you do. You also told me how much you made last time you had a settlement. It wasn't £100k but you know full well it was a substantial amount.

Even if I had suggested a severance of half the amount, say, £50k, it doesn't really alter my point, does it?

I just don't get why all of a sudden, you're all in behind that Bullingdon fckwitt, Boris Johnson, and his race to the bottom for the ordinaries.