Should IVF be offered for free on the NHS?

[mr sheen]

so, lets clarify.....you are telling me that the majority of infertile people are BORN infertile?

I am asking you how you know they're not. How many babies do you know who are tested for their ability to reproduce? Do you think that such a programme of testing would also be a good use of NHS resources? I'm asking you to show me the figures that have led to your views and opinion. I'm not telling you anything.

 

[mr sheen]

Just read your first post and Bushy is 100% right.What a load of utter garbage.How the hell can you even believe or write that? It's no different from you saying that someone born with some problem should be denied the right to treament for health or survival just because the parent/parents didn't full into your category of the fittest,finest etc etc.

No Algie, it's very different to that. I'm saying that I don't believe IVF shuld be funded by the NHS. I'm saying that evolution tells us many things about natural selection. I imagine you're more of the creationist mindset yourself. I'll let the nice muslim doctors explain to you next time you go into hospital.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I am asking you how you know they're not. How many babies do you know who are tested for their ability to reproduce? Do you think that such a programme of testing would also be a good use of NHS resources? I'm asking you to show me the figures that have led to your views and opinion. I'm not telling you anything.

Major causes of infertility (chart)


at your leisure.....

 

[algie]

No Algie, it's very different to that. I'm saying that I don't believe IVF shuld be funded by the NHS. I'm saying that evolution tells us many things about natural selection. I imagine you're more of the creationist mindset yourself. I'll let the nice muslim doctors explain to you next time you go into hospital.

Science/medicine is there to be discovered and used where necessary,f*** all to do with natural selection or whatever you call it.

 

[User removed 4]

No Algie, it's very different to that. I'm saying that I don't believe IVF shuld be funded by the NHS. I'm saying that evolution tells us many things about natural selection. I imagine you're more of the creationist mindset yourself. I'll let the nice muslim doctors explain to you next time you go into hospital.

nobody is questioning your view as to whether it should be available on the nhs, it was your puerile attempt at being controversial in the way you put across that view.

 

[mr sheen]

Major causes of infertility (chart)


at your leisure.....

now tell me what that proves. Because it doesn't prove that the majority of people only become infertile due to the environment or accidents or illness.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

now tell me what that proves. Because it doesn't prove that the majority of people only become infertile due to the environment or accidents or illness.

as an example.....

This condition, in which endometrial tissue (the uterine lining that sheds with each monthly period) grows outside the uterus, is a major cause of infertility in women.

women are hardly born.....'having periods'.....

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

now tell me what that proves. Because it doesn't prove that the majority of people only become infertile due to the environment or accidents or illness.

Any views on the treatment of infertility caused by anti-cancer therapy then?

 

[mr sheen]

Any views on the treatment of infertility caused by anti-cancer therapy then?

Well, if you read the above you would know them. Safe to say you haven't, or you wouldn't be asking.

 

[mr sheen]

as an example.....

This condition, in which endometrial tissue (the uterine lining that sheds with each monthly period) grows outside the uterus, is a major cause of infertility in women.

women are hardly born.....'having periods'.....

I think you'll find that's a point I made back in post 41.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I think you'll find that's a point I made back in post 41.

not quite.....I think you will find that you wanted 'my stats'.....which I have provided, proving that the majority of infertile people are not BORN infertile.

 

[Pigsy]

not quite.....I think you will find that you wanted 'my stats'.....which I have provided, proving that the majority of people are not BORN infertile.

what about the majority of infertile people? I would imagine that everyone is born infertile. I don't know of any babies who could breed the moment they come out the womb.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

My wife and I have undertaken IVF. One cycle paid for by the NHS, the other two occasions paid for by ourselves.

Firstly, IVF is not an easy decision to make. Its one made when you desperately want children. Having to go to the Drs, hoping that they will find nothing wrong and after a few months bingo, only to find out that a man has a low sperm count or the women has entered the menopause early or other bodily functions dont work properly is heartbreaking.

Feeling lousy yourself, seeing your wife get all upset is not easy to take. Thats before you go through the procedure.

The procedure itself is not pleasent

Then you have the outcome, which in our experience was 3 failiures. Each and everyone was like seeing all your dreams vanish. Really difficult times. Wondering how our lives have gone to this, desperately wanting children and on the other side of the coin seeing teen mothers having lots of them from several fathers.

So do I think it should be free? Yes. My wife and I pay our taxes just like everyone else. Its treatment for a medical problem.

Having said that obviously there are finite resources for the NHS and I wouldn't expect more than one cycle to be free. So, I think the NHS has got it about right.

As for adoption. Yes we have adopted, a very cute 18 month old. I'm a believer in fate. I guess my wife and I were fated not to have our kids, so that we could meet our adopted daughter. She was fated to meet us. You know what, despite all the pain, I wouldn't change anything now.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Well, if you read the above you would know them. Safe to say you haven't, or you wouldn't be asking.

Sorry but I can't see anything from you in this thread on oncology treatment related/induced infertility (which is what my question is about).
You do say that you don't believe that IVF should be funded by the NHS (post 42) so I assume that means under any circumstances(?).
So, if the side-effect of an NHS provided anti-cancer treatment, medicine etc is infertility and NHS funding is not to be used to mitigate/treat this side effect then should it be used to treat others - eg nausea, hair loss, immune system deficiencies, blood disorders, peripheral nerve damage, depression, tiredness, GI tract disturbances, etc, etc, etc?
Or indeed side effects from any treatment provided by the NHS for any condition?

 

[Gritt23]

only an easy decision if you are fertile and in a position to conceive naturally.....

But it's not limited to the infertile.

I know of a woman who is about to undergo her free IVF treatment on the NHS, which she is doing because she wants a baby, and is currently single, therefore doesn't have sperm on tap to do the job, so we are all funding this on her behalf.

You can't tell me that is wise use of limited funds.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

But it's not limited to the infertile.

I know of a woman who is about to undergo her free IVF treatment on the NHS, which she is doing because she wants a baby, and is currently single, therefore doesn't have sperm on tap to do the job, so we are all funding this on her behalf.

You can't tell me that is wise use of limited funds.

No, no I can't

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

But it's not limited to the infertile.

I know of a woman who is about to undergo her free IVF treatment on the NHS, which she is doing because she wants a baby, and is currently single, therefore doesn't have sperm on tap to do the job, so we are all funding this on her behalf.

You can't tell me that is wise use of limited funds.

I think there is probably more to this case than you know. With what you've posted here, this woman doesn't qualify for IVF treatment on the NHS.

 

[User removed 4]

Sorry but I can't see anything from you in this thread on oncology treatment related/induced infertility (which is what my question is about).
You do say that you don't believe that IVF should be funded by the NHS (post 42) so I assume that means under any circumstances(?).
So, if the side-effect of an NHS provided anti-cancer treatment, medicine etc is infertility and NHS funding is not to be used to mitigate/treat this side effect then should it be used to treat others - eg nausea, hair loss, immune system deficiencies, blood disorders, peripheral nerve damage, depression, tiredness, GI tract disturbances, etc, etc, etc?
Or indeed side effects from any treatment provided by the NHS for any condition?

over to you mr sheen !!

 

[nlf]

Surely the whole concept of evolution is that it's survival of the fttest. Those who are seedless or eggless are clearly unable to breed because they are of inherently poor stock or have some sort of genetic failing. They should therefore not be allowed to have second rate children funded by my taxes.

From some of your posts in the past your attitude has really annoyed me but given that my belief is that you cant judge a person based on what they say on an internet forum i have just let it go over my head but this post has grated my last nerve.
1. Given thats its survival of the fittest i presume should you fall ill you will be letting nature take its course with you instead of having treatment?
2. How f*cking dare you call any child "second rate" just because they may have a genetic disorder, i take it there has never been any illness in your family ever then?
3. If you think it should be up to the tax payer to decide who get NHS treatment then should you fall ill i dont want MY taxes paying to help a c*nt like you.

Sorry everybody else over.

 

[Simster]

So do I think it should be free? Yes. My wife and I pay our taxes just like everyone else. Its treatment for a medical problem.

For me, this is the key point.

As a tax payer, I'd rather one (or maybe even 2) rounds of IVF were state funded than see all these fat fuckers needing stomach stapling or being treated a ridiculous number of times for various heart diseases just because they stuff themselves to excess and do shit-all exercise. At least smokers pay through the nose in taxes for the privilege of being treated.