Shootings at Pulse nightclub in Orlando

[Questions]

Now all after me, "we're as mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore."
Right now where are our semi automatic weapons and the like...........oh yeah we can't get access to them, I forgot.

 

[nicko31]

Here's another statistic.

USA, with the gun laws you celebrate, 13,286 gun related deaths in 2015.

UK, with strict gun laws, 44 gun deaths in 2015.




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Tragic as this shooting is. There's probably as many that have died from guns elsewhere in the US of A since the shooting occurred on Saturday

Think about it before you open your mouth Mr. Trump..

 

[Acker79]

I think it's down to mental illness. Not the guns.

Do you think British society would benefit from a toal ban on alcohol sales? Like all the violence socially and domestically and the billions of dollars that it causes in death and injuries etc

If you're concerned about eliminating things in socieities which cause people damage surely this should be highest on your internal agenda rather than US gun laws?

I mean if you're a gun owner who doesn't drink don't you then have the right to call out the hypocrisy of people calling for gun bans etc?

Alcohol only does damage if misused.
A gun is designed to kill. It's purpose is damage.

 

[Mackenzie]

So what's your story then @Tyrone Biggums? How come you are seemingly unwilling or unable to grasp the bleeding obvious. Do you enjoy shooting "roos" in the outback or something?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=seXi-AnfFzU

 

[Simster]

Alcohol only does damage if misused.
A gun is designed to kill. It's purpose is damage.

To me, that's a straw man argument as it could be equally argued that a gun's purpose is to defend. And as for alcohol, people so frequently mis-use alcohol in this country that we are now de-sanitised to it. Speak to anyone who works in the front line at an A&E and they will tell you this. The reality is that by banning alcohol we'd massively reduce problems in our society, but understandably nobody wants this.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Alcohol only does damage if misused.

Same with guns.

A gun is designed to kill. It's purpose is damage.

A gun is designed to do many things. Only mentaly unstable people buy it with the express purpose of killing someone in cold blood.

Normal people buy it for sport, hobby, safety.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

To me, that's a straw man argument as it could be equally argued that a gun's purpose is to defend. And as for alcohol, people so frequently mis-use alcohol in this country that we are now de-sanitised to it. Speak to anyone who works in the front line at an A&E and they will tell you this. The reality is that by banning alcohol we'd massively reduce problems in our society, but understandably nobody wants this.

Too true.

Once someone has a stake in something being called on to be banned watch them flip out and show their hypocrisy.

 

[alfredmizen]

To me, that's a straw man argument as it could be equally argued that a gun's purpose is to defend. And as for alcohol, people so frequently mis-use alcohol in this country that we are now de-sanitised to it. Speak to anyone who works in the front line at an A&E and they will tell you this. The reality is that by banning alcohol we'd massively reduce problems in our society, but understandably nobody wants this.

Ever heard of the Volstead act ?

 

[Simster]

Ever heard of the Volstead act ?

Yes, but that was in the US! The point is that the US doesn't have the same level of alcohol-induced problems as we do. I'm not advocating a banning of alchohol by the way, I'm simply highlighting a point that taking laws in isolation of a national culture isn't really proof of anything. There is a cultural problem surrounding the ownership of guns in the US in the same way as there is a cultural problem surrounding binge drinking here. But we are not going to take kindly to an American telling us to ban alcohol any more than Brits doing the same over their gun laws.

 

[Seasider78]

There is little point trying to reason with Americans on this subject there is a completely different attitude and culture around guns in the UK. I just count myself lucky that I live in a country that responded to a child shooting with anger and tightened up gun ownership rather than merely accepting thousands of deaths as a price worth paying to protect the right to bear arms.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I think it's down to mental illness. Not the guns.

It has to be a combination of both no?

Do you think British society would benefit from a toal ban on alcohol sales? Like all the violence socially and domestically and the billions of dollars that it causes in death and injuries etc

I live in Sweden where you can only buy alcohol (over 3.5%) in bars (no takeaway) or from one shop which closes at 3pm on a Saturday and is closed on a Sunday. Would the alcohol-related death rates in the UK go down if we switched to the Swedish model? Pretty likely. But I'm not an idiot. I believe people should be able to have the right to choose to drink/smoke without punishment. A gun a is very different type of killer than alcohol.

If you're concerned about eliminating things in socieities which cause people damage surely this should be highest on your internal agenda rather than US gun laws?

I'm concerned about the realistic fixes to the problem. It's about minimising risks isn't it? Tighter gun control. Improving mental healthcare, preventing young muslims from exposure to these ideas etc. Which is easiest to fix? I'd say that making sure weapons capable of killing hundreds in a few seconds are not available to anyone in the general population is pretty high up the list of things to fix.

I mean if you're a gun owner who doesn't drink don't you then have the right to call out the hypocrisy of people calling for gun bans etc?

They're two very very different things though.

 

[RossyG]

A Muslim terrorist massacres people in a nightclub and it's America's gun laws that were at fault... Muslim terrorists massacre staff of a satirical magazine and it's their fault for drawing cartoons... I guess Lee Rigby's beheading was Britain's fault for selling sharp knives.

 

[Diego Napier]

Yes, but that was in the US! The point is that the US doesn't have the same level of alcohol-induced problems as we do.

?

UK - 8700 alcohol related deaths
US - 88000 alcohol related deaths, with 25% of population reporting they'd indulged in binge drinking in the past month

 

[El Presidente]

The reality is that by banning alcohol we'd massively reduce problems in our society, but understandably nobody wants this.

Restricting alcohol would be a step in the right direction though.

The proposal to introduce minimum pricing of 50p per unit has been suggested, although as you've correctly pointed out, booze is cheaper in France and they don't act like twats as soon as they get within 30 yards of a bar.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

A Muslim terrorist massacres people in a nightclub and it's America's gun laws that were at fault... Muslim terrorists massacre staff of a satirical magazine and it's their fault for drawing cartoons... I guess Lee Rigby's beheading was Britain's fault for selling sharp knives.

Ridiculous post.

 

[BadFish]

The gun culture of the US is surely a massive influence on people wanting automatic and assault rifles. Many people love guns and the bigger they are the better. These mass shootings usually involve these massive assault rifles and automatic weapons which by their very nature can kill many people in a short time. These kind of guns have no real use in society, i can't see a reason why people need access to them. licensing for them should be strict. IMHO of course.

Then again if a massive % of your economy is made up of gun manufacturers you would really be shooting yourself in the foot to limit your sales. The situation is ****ed.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Ever heard of the Volstead act ?

And look how badly prohibition ended up. People think it's bad now with guns, I don't think they understand how badly it could end up if all of a sudden they started to try and forcibly take guns off people

 

[Simster]

?

UK - 8700 alcohol related deaths
US - 88000 alcohol related deaths, with 25% of population reporting they'd indulged in binge drinking in the past month

Ah ok, then maybe a comparison with France or Italy?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The gun culture of the US is surely a massive influence on people wanting automatic and assault rifles. Many people love guns and the bigger they are the better. These mass shootings usually involve these massive assault rifles and automatic weapons which by their very nature can kill many people in a short time. These kind of guns have no real use in society, i can't see a reason why people need access to them. licensing for them should be strict. IMHO of course.

Then again if a massive % of your economy is made up of gun manufacturers you would really be shooting yourself in the foot to limit your sales. The situation is ****ed.

I've fired assault rifles at gun clubs, amazing fun to be able to use them. I can see why people would want to own one to use.

 

[BadFish]

A Muslim terrorist massacres people in a nightclub and it's America's gun laws that were at fault... Muslim terrorists massacre staff of a satirical magazine and it's their fault for drawing cartoons... I guess Lee Rigby's beheading was Britain's fault for selling sharp knives.

I think the second one was France's fault for selling pencils.