[News] Shemima Begum- Should she be allowed to return to the UK?

[WATFORD zero]

No - my post was in response to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

Boot them out if these "problem people" are in the UK ILLEGALLY.

They must have come from somewhere

Whether they are illegal or not, where are you sending them if no one will accept them and they are stateless, ie they aren't a citizen of anywhere.

Where they come from won't accept them back because they are not a citizen of that country

 

[sparkie]

Whether they are illegal or not, where are you sending them if no one will accept them and they are stateless, ie they aren't a citizen of anywhere.

Where they come from won't accept them back because they are not a citizen of that country

If they are not UK citizens ( or have visas to stay ) then they should not be in the UK

If the country that sent them will not accept them then the UK can use the same process to not accept them as well ?


We cannot have people staying who are outside the immigration/asylum process.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If they are not UK citizens ( or have visas to stay ) then they should not be in the UK

If the country that sent them will not accept them then the UK can use the same process to not accept them ?

Then should Syria should also be able to do the same ?

Shemima Begum is in Syria and they don't want her there, she is not a Syrian citizen and doesn't have a visa to stay. She was a British citizen and went from Britain to Syria illegally. Britain then removed her citizenship. So where should Syria now send her ?

 

[zeemeeuw]

She's apparently not a Bangladeshi citizen, she's just eligible for citizenship (in much the same way I could apply for an Irish passport if I wanted to). That's what's so insidious about this - it means anyone with a foreign grandparent now has a diminished, second-class form of British citizenship that can be withdrawn by the government.

That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)

 

[sparkie]

Then should Syria should also be able to do the same ?

Shemima Begum is in Syria and they don't want her there, she is not a Syrian citizen and doesn't have a visa to stay. She was a British citizen and went from Britain to Syria illegally. Britain then removed her citizenship. So where should Syria now send her ?

You keep missing that I was responding to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

My response was nothing to do with any specific individual - I am not a well paid UK Civil Servant who has specific individual cases on their work "to do" list.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You keep missing that I was responding to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

My response was nothing to do with any specific individual.

The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)

I think you got too hung up on my Ireland example, which on reflection I shouldn't have included because it's not relevant. The Bangladeshi government have confirmed that she is not a citizen. She has been stripped of her British citizenship because the British courts believe she is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, even though she doesn't have it.

It'd be bad enough if she did have Bangladeshi citizenship, because that would mean all dual nationals now had a weakened, second-class form of British citizenship. But because she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship, it's even worse: Anyone who might be eligible for citizenship of another country, whether that's through a grandparent or anything else, is now a second-class British citizen.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.

Britain didn't dump Shemina Begum in Syria or anywhere else; she went there of her own free will. The fact that she can no longer return is very much her problem to sort out.

 

[sparkie]

The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.

I am pretty bored with you repeatedly missing that I responded specifically to "We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

I am certainly not going to spend hours or days formulating a policy for illegal entry outliers unpaid. Lol.

Thread ignore-ed. This is really not adding to my life.

 

[zeemeeuw]

I think you got too hung up on my Ireland example, which on reflection I shouldn't have included because it's not relevant. The Bangladeshi government have confirmed that she is not a citizen. She has been stripped of her British citizenship because the British courts believe she is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, even though she doesn't have it.

It'd be bad enough if she did have Bangladeshi citizenship, because that would mean all dual nationals now had a weakened, second-class form of British citizenship. But because she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship, it's even worse: Anyone who might be eligible for citizenship of another country, whether that's through a grandparent or anything else, is now a second-class British citizen

Yep, she's effectively stateless now because her (provisional) Bangladesh Citizenship lapsed when she was 21 but she was 19 when she had the British citizenship withdrawn. All about legal technicalities, I suppose. Ultimately, needs some kind of international court to decide.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Britain didn't dump Shemina Begum in Syria or anywhere else; she went there of her own free will. The fact that she can no longer return is very much her problem to sort out.

Exactly this.

The growing division in this country over immigration is unfortunate and government led, but here we have a young lady who has made a bed she needs to lie in.

 

[beorhthelm]

That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)

as i recall that's exactly the case, automatic citizenship for children of Bangledesh citizens.

 

[Randy McNob]

We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights

 

[Is it PotG?]

We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights

I regard ISIS as a bigger threat to my human rights tbh.

 

[Zebedee]

I regard ISIS as a bigger threat to my human rights tbh.

Quite.

 

[Bry Nylon]

We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights

Yes, if I choose to leave the country to join ISIS, I accept the loss of my British citizenship is a risk I now take.

Just to make sure that doesn’t happen, I’m going to make a note in my diary not to do that.

 

[Sea Cider]

I regard ISIS as a bigger threat to my human rights tbh.

For goodness sake, she was a stupid 15 year old girl, probably brainwashed and likely sexually exploited, hardly the second coming of Osama Bin Laden.

If you're worried about safety, presume everyone accused of a violent crime should have their citizenship removed and be deported accordingly.

 

[The Clamp]

We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights

I can’t say this case concerns me very much.

It is highly unlikely a normal persons’ citizenship will be revoked as they go about their lawful business.



Do we have a duty of care to her? Very arguable point. I used to think that was a definite yes, we are responsible for her welfare.

I’m uncertain now.

Although being 15 at the time and so was vulnerable by default.

I would allow her back but she’d have to be in some sort of custodial arrangement until deemed safe.

 

[KZNSeagull]

We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights

What precedent? This power has been available since 1914 and on average since 2010, 19 people a year have been deprived of their citizenship.

Nationality and Borders Bill: Deprivation of citizenship factsheet

www.gov.uk

 

[Randy McNob]

That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)

Oh yes, there was a surge in applications for Irish passports after we voted to significantly devalue ours in return for changing the colour