Sheffield Wednesday Player Retires

[symyjym]

But if one believes something doesn't exist then that sounds like an ideology and one that has faith in a fact. What if you are wrong and God does exist ?
I still think it's all a bit academic. If God does exist then that still doesn't justify religious authority or it's social attitudes.

When looking at this God thing critically and objectively it is problematic. Moses committed genocide of a Jewish tribe by ordering all of his men to kill everyone but the virgins. They were distributed amongst his men. All endorsed and instructed by God of course.

Jesus comes along and wanted to abandon the vengeful laws of the Jews such as Exodus 22:20, but it turns out that Jesus was the same God who instructed Moses to commit a war crime.

Religion is about superstition and atheism isn't.

As Judge Judy says: If something sounds to good to be true it probably isn't true.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

see you're confusing yourself by starting from the wrong premise... again, it not about a belief something doesnt exist, its from the non-belief something exists. do you believe there are fairies, would you say anyone who doesnt has to believe in their non-existance as some form of faith? no. there's no need for ideology or faith in atheism or the non-belief of anything.

When looking at this God thing critically and objectively it is problematic. Moses committed genocide of a Jewish tribe by ordering all of his men to kill everyone but the virgins. They were distributed amongst his men. All endorsed and instructed by God of course.

Jesus comes along and wanted to abandon the vengeful laws of the Jews such as Exodus 22:20, but it turns out that Jesus was the same God who instructed Moses to commit a war crime.

Religion is about superstition and atheism isn't.

As Judge Judy says: If something sounds to good to be true it probably isn't true.

The debate is pretty much settled here : https://youtu.be/tTNuldPhP20

 

[symyjym]

The debate is pretty much settled here

It hasn't been a debate. You haven't addressed my reasoning for not believing in God. It's not about disproving that God exists by physical evidence which is impossible, it's about the contradictions in religions which disprove themselves. You know as well as I do, if you read my comment, that it all sounds bonkers and doesn't involve any rational thought.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Honestly, there's next to no difference between preachy religious types or preachy athiests, they're both a bunch of jumped-up gits.

As for the Wednesday player, fair play to him. If he believes in something enough to step away from a highly coveted job (and the money that comes with it), more power to him.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Honestly, there's next to no difference between preachy religious types or preachy athiests, they're both a bunch of jumped-up gits.

As for the Wednesday player, fair play to him. If he believes in something enough to step away from a highly coveted job (and the money that comes with it), more power to him.

9 pages and then someone says something sensible.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

9 pages and then someone says something sensible.

I was called sensible! It's only taken (roughly) 30 years...time to call the parents...

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It hasn't been a debate. You haven't addressed my reasoning for not believing in God. It's not about disproving that God exists by physical evidence which is impossible, it's about the contradictions in religions which disprove themselves. You know as well as I do, if you read my comment, that it all sounds bonkers and doesn't involve any rational thought.

Ok, well playing devil's advocate for a moment (because I don't believe in God either) I would say that your contradictions within religion can be explained away by unknown unknowns. There may be something you are missing that reconciles these contradictions. It is this that believers hold on to and where their blind faith kicks in.
Your conclusion that God doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the contrary because you may be wrong. Really atheism is just another religious sect whereas agnosticism doesn't give a damn.
I still prefer the HGTTG refutation of the existence of God though.

 

[beorhthelm]

Your conclusion that God doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the contrary because you may be wrong. Really atheism is just another religious sect whereas agnosticism doesn't give a damn.
I still prefer the HGTTG refutation of the existence of God though.

since you're insisting that atheism is another religion, you really havent understood Hitchhikers.

 

[symyjym]

Ok, well playing devil's advocate for a moment (because I don't believe in God either) I would say that your contradictions within religion can be explained away by unknown unknowns. There may be something you are missing that reconciles these contradictions. It is this that believers hold on to and where their blind faith kicks in.
Your conclusion that God doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the contrary because you may be wrong. Really atheism is just another religious sect whereas agnosticism doesn't give a damn.
I still prefer the HGTTG refutation of the existence of God though.

Ok I will play along. I have been on this earth for many decades and I have heard nothing to reconcile the contradictory nature of this God they speak of.

Atheism doesn't follow any system. You can be a pig ignorant atheist inbred who gets a thrill out of causing harm to people, or you can be like David Attenborough.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

since you're insisting that atheism is another religion, you really havent understood Hitchhikers.

I'm not really insisting anything. Just having a natter. As to understanding Hitchhikers...I just enjoyed it and thought it a better argument for atheism than any I had previously heard (tongue in cheek of course).

 

[daveinprague]

Wonder how many gods this earth has seen in its history. The Abrahamic God from the bible is a fairly new one in the context of the earths history.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Your conclusion that God doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the contrary because you may be wrong. Really atheism is just another religious sect whereas agnosticism doesn't give a damn.
I still prefer the HGTTG refutation of the existence of God though.

Hello! This wasn't aimed at me but I'm going to disagree (respectfully of course!) with you old chap (chap?).

I consider myself an Atheist in that I don't believe there's a greater being/afterlife, however, it's only a 'belief' in that it fills the absence of any faith that a religious person would have when it comes up in conversation. Outside of that circumstance I don't preach it, I don't think about it and, truth be told, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or (more importantly I feel) how I view anyone else. Believe what you want, I'll respect you if you respect me, which is how I've always perceived athiesm to be.

Agnosticsm I always thought was an acknowledgement of having no particular faith whilst being open to the possiblity of being wrong (probably a vast oversimplification but I'm hardly a theologian).

What you're referring to are the equivalent of a militant believer (sorry, that sounds patronising but it suits until I think of better wording) who seemingly seeks the superiority of proving themselves 'right', completely missing the point that you can't dislodge faith with logic (or vice-versa) as the two systems are borderline, if not completely, incompatible.

Edit; Didn't capitalise 'athiest'. Not sure it's grammatically correct but sod it, feeling it's the right thing to do

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Hello! This wasn't aimed at me but I'm going to disagree (respectfully of course!) with you old chap (chap?).

I consider myself an Atheist in that I don't believe there's a greater being/afterlife, however, it's only a 'belief' in that it fills the absence of any faith that a religious person would have when it comes up in conversation. Outside of that circumstance I don't preach it, I don't think about it and, truth be told, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or (more importantly I feel) how I view anyone else. Believe what you want, I'll respect you if you respect me, which is how I've always perceived athiesm to be.

Agnosticsm I always thought was an acknowledgement of having no particular faith whilst being open to the possiblity of being wrong (probably a vast oversimplification but I'm hardly a theologian).

What you're referring to are the equivalent of a militant believer (sorry, that sounds patronising but it suits until I think of better wording) who seemingly seeks the superiority of proving themselves 'right', completely missing the point that you can't dislodge faith with logic (or vice-versa) as the two systems are borderline, if not completely, incompatible.

Edit; Didn't capitalise 'athiest'. Not sure it's grammatically correct but sod it, feeling it's the right thing to do

Hello, good to talk to you and fair enough to all your comments.I can't really argue with any of that and your description of Agnostisicm I would agree with. I am open to the existence of God but quite frankly I don't really care either way. I do accept that there might be an awkward moment when I die and if it turns out I'm wrong !
Really we are just splitting hairs and playing semantics. I understand the view that atheism is the absence of faith but I was just toying with the idea that believing something doesn't exist is the same as believing it does exist.
I seem to have somehow on this thread taken the role of sticking up for religion ! Not sure how that's happened . It's probably because the religious on here haven't spoken up but then, why should they as their faith is personal and they really don't have to justify it.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Hello, good to talk to you and fair enough to all your comments.I can't really argue with any of that and your description of Agnostisicm I would agree with. I am open to the existence of God but quite frankly I don't really care either way. I do accept that there might be an awkward moment when I die and if it turns out I'm wrong !
Really we are just splitting hairs and playing semantics. I understand the view that atheism is the absence of faith but I was just toying with the idea that believing something doesn't exist is the same as believing it does exist.
I seem to have somehow on this thread taken the role of sticking up for religion ! Not sure how that's happened . It's probably because the religious on here haven't spoken up but then, why should they as their faith is personal and they really don't have to justify it.

You think it'd be bad for you? Imagine the Brentian levels of awkwardness I'll have to endure if I end up outside some pearly gates!

I had similar thoughts when I saw 'Athiest Camps' mentioned in a news story a few years ago, where children could seemingly go and learn about the world in an athiest way. If that isn't instituting a belief system (not faith but logic, I'll concede), with an element of preaching, then I'm not sure what would be.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Isn't atheism similar to religious belief in that you believe something that can't be proven ? In this case that God doesn't exist. I'm more of an agnostic in that I don't know and I don't care. What I do know is that religion is a method of control and imposing social conservatism. The Left once opposed these forces whereas now it has become a reactionary apologist which is quite disappointing.

My definition of atheism is that see I no reason to believe, not that I am sure of anything. The term means absence of belief. I know that it has negative connotations and people see atheists as bullies who harass those with beliefs but I never do that. The reason why I don't use the term agnostic is that I don't think it actually makes sense as it means someone with an absence of knowledge and surely that is everyone as no-one has proof of the existence of a deity. The most devout people have faith not knowledge.

 

[indy3050]

I said some silly things last night so I apologise to each and every one of you with religious beliefs. No excuse but just explaining, I had been enjoying a nice red and acted like a dick. Sorry.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I have a feeling that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, dont you? lol

I believe that you are agreeing to be unintelligent but you have the freedom to so choose to be that unintelligent.

 

[wellquickwoody]

What harm has religious belief ever done?

Errmm.......

 

[Filipino Pat]

Isn't atheism similar to religious belief in that you believe something that can't be proven ? In this case that God doesn't exist. I'm more of an agnostic in that I don't know and I don't care. What I do know is that religion is a method of control and imposing social conservatism. The Left once opposed these forces whereas now it has become a reactionary apologist which is quite disappointing.

If atheism is a religion, then that would make health a disease...

 

[Ceej]

Thank you. As a Born Again Christian I find it hard to take remarks like that too. I have no problem with people who choose not to follow their God, but surely we should all be more tolerant of others?

I feel a little sad for the player that he can't find a way to practice both but if that's his calling then good luck to him.
Language like "people who choose not to follow their God" can prickle.
It implies that we all should follow a God and that if we don't then we are somehow not on the right path. Being told or hearing this is as inflammatory as me telling you that your God doesn't exist outside of your mind. It is atheistic intolerance.
Peace and thanks.