Shameful

[GT49er]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52806086

Someone with principles - perhaps he could explain the concept to Johnson and Cummings?

Do you think they're capable of understanding the concept?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Johnson never wanted to actually do the job. He wanted the job itself. He has not got any ambition to make life better for people in this country or anything similar. There is no moral code. He enjoys the chase. And that's it. Cummins gives his prime-ministership purpose. For Johnson without Cummins as a nation we are a rudderless ship.

 

[GT49er]

Then I suggest you understand little about what is really going on in government. As for the assertion that Johnson is fairly intelligent, you must have a very low threshold to assess someones intelligence.

You don't like him (neither do I), you don't agree with him, he's an ******** - and yes, he's shown a serious error of judgement over the Cummings affair, but to say that makes him unintelligent is just stupid; no logic is followed in that assumption. Nobody wriggles to the top of the tree without being a pretty bright citizen.

 

[nicko31]

Johnson never wanted to actually do the job. He wanted the job itself. He has not got any ambition to make life better for people in this country or anything similar. There is no moral code. He enjoys the chase. And that's it. Cummins gives his prime-ministership purpose. For Johnson without Cummins as a nation we are a rudderless ship.

Populist governments in the end eat themselves, at some point they run out of road. You can only lie so much

 

[Diablo]

Then I suggest you understand little about what is really going on in government. As for the assertion that Johnson is fairly intelligent, you must have a very low threshold to assess someones intelligence.

Anyone who goes to Oxford and gets a 2-1 is probably in the top 10% . I imagine intelligence is rated as IQ. I`d hazzard a guess Boris would rate higher than more than 90 % of NSC members. Me included.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Anyone who goes to Oxford and gets a 2-1 is probably in the top 10% . I imagine intelligence is rated as IQ. I`d hazzard a guess Boris would rate higher than more than 90 % of NSC members. Me included.

Possibly. He was on an educational conveyor belt designed for his background. A 2:1 from Oxford is an achievement for sure. We will never know what he would achieved from another background. I have met many very bright people over the years who have not done a lot academically. Who knows.

 

[1066familyman]

Boris is anything but stupid or unintelligent.

He loves people to think he's not very intelligent and just a bit of a bumbling buffoon that's just trying to do his best for the nation at large.

It's not the real Boris. It's a carefully cultivated image. And up until now it has worked extremely well for him.

 

[GT49er]

Anyone who goes to Oxford and gets a 2-1 is probably in the top 10% . I imagine intelligence is rated as IQ. I`d hazzard a guess Boris would rate higher than more than 90 % of NSC members. Me included.

Absolutely. And you have to remember you have to be pretty damned bright to get into Oxford in the first place - the Oxbridge universities are very picky about their intake.

 

[Frutos]

I have met many very bright people over the years who have not done a lot academically.

Conversely, I've met a fair few academics who have brilliant knowledge of their field but are otherwise as thick as mince.

 

[1066familyman]

Johnson is Prime Minister in name only - as the front man. Make no mistake this individual is the person in charge. That is whyJohnson can't get rid of him.

Maybe it is just as simple as that. I really don't know.

At the moment I'm puzzled as to why they are investing so heavily in keeping Cummings in post. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. Unless it is as simple as you say.

At this point in time I don't have any better theories.

 

[NooBHA]

Populist governments in the end eat themselves, at some point they run out of road. You can only lie so much

You would think so.

That's what I keep telling myself.

But then you look at Donald Trump telling people that maybe injecting bleach or ultra violet light into the body as a potential cure to Covid-19.

In years gone by such a statement would have been your ticket to the ''Loopey Doo Farm'' - But he is still in touching distance with Biden to be re-elected. Biden should have been out of sight in the polls by now but he isn't.

There is something about the Electorate all around the World that I for the life of me can't put my finger on as to why people like Trump and Johnson have the appeal that they do. And it shows no sign of abating.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Absolutely. And you have to remember you have to be pretty damned bright to get into Oxford in the first place - the Oxbridge universities are very picky about their intake.

Yes, they like to pick students from Eton.

I'm afraid despite what they say, I have no confidence that there is a level playing field when it comes to getting into Oxbridge.

Although I also agree with those saying Johnson is a clever man. But I think his intelligence is very much emotional intelligence - about winning popularity and playing political situations - not necessarily the same type of intelligence that makes someone a good political leader.

 

[lawros left foot]

Absolutely. And you have to remember you have to be pretty damned bright to get into Oxford in the first place - the Oxbridge universities are very picky about their intake.

Unless you’re very rich, and Papa has an in with the admissions tutor.

From Doctor Zoe Williams, The Guardian.

It is hard to say what’s most epic about the US university admission scandal, between the lies (faked special needs certificates, young slackers Photoshopped into sporting triumph); the money involved (huge sums, often more than $1m (£758,000), which parents are said to have paid to score their kids scholarships in fields wherein they have no merit); and the sight of all those famous people, their heads floating in a limbo-confusion, as society decides how much damage this peculiar business will do to their careers.
“I don’t understand,” UK academic Prof David Andress remarks: “Why these rich people didn’t just make strategic donations, perfectly legally, to achieve the same end …” You couldn’t get away even with making a donation in return for a place in the UK, where it would be so unusual as to be immediately seized upon. But that doesn’t mean you cannot blag your way into the right university; you just need to start further up the pipeline …
The Toby Young

Estimated cost £50,000 (not adjusted for inflation).
Method Take one mediocre student who wouldn’t know how to apply himself even if he had the humility, enter him for Oxford, watch him fail to get the grades. Then, as that student’s father, call up the admissions tutor and, using your social capital, heavily leverage an administrative error into an obligation. This is the expensive bit: you need to sound as though you know a lot of important people, which will involve a private education, whether you eschew the principle or not.
The Boris Johnson

Estimated cost That of an Eton education (you can adjust this for inflation yourself).
Method Take one cavalier and uninspiring student and force-feed them with expensive learning like you’re trying to make intellectual foie gras. Don’t worry if it doesn’t go in: they should generally emerge able to sound like it has. People always talk about how Russell Group universities should open their minds to state-educated students. I would look at this a different way: they should build more resilience to the charms of the privately educated, so that they can differentiate between talent and bluster. This would free up a huge number of places, and the unwashed could just stroll in.
The Never-Mind-Who-This-Is

Estimated cost £140,000, plus ineffable social capital.
Method It is actually quite hard to bust thick kids into private schools nowadays – trust me, we are victims of our own success – however much money you have. This is where the “rugby/running” scholarship comes in, which many schools reserve for the children of the famous or somehow renowned. Realistically, no kid at 11 is that good at rugby.

 

[beardy gull]

Two more Tory MPs call for DC to resign. Former minister Stephen Hammond and former Conservative Party Chief Whip Mark Harper.
But sure, it's just lefties and remainers.....

 

[GT49er]

Unless you’re very rich, and Papa has an in with the admissions tutor..............etc, etc...............

Yes, you're quite right, places can be bought. I believe the heir to the throne did a bespoke two year course................ They don't all finish up wit 2.1s though. I was basically responding to the suggestion made by the original OP on this sub-topic that Johnson lacked intelligence. Clearly, he doesn't.

 

[lawros left foot]

Yes, you're quite right, places can be bought. I believe the heir to the throne did a bespoke two year course................ They don't all finish up wit 2.1s though. I was basically responding to the suggestion made by the original OP on this sub-topic that Johnson lacked intelligence. Clearly, he doesn't.

I prefer to think he has a low animal cunning .

 

[Loadicus Trux]

I feel I'm at a stage in my life now where politicians rarely surprise or shock me, and I expect them to let us down sooner or later, whichever party they represent, so don't get too het up about it. But on this occasion, I am truly appalled. I think I'm a fairly bright person, but am really struggling to understand how what this ****ish idiot did was Ok, or how he can be defended by anyone. The arrogance and total contempt for ordinary people who have sacrificed so much and tried so hard to do the right thing is beyond belief. Boris will sorely regret the choices he has made today.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Boris is anything but stupid or unintelligent.

He loves people to think he's not very intelligent and just a bit of a bumbling buffoon that's just trying to do his best for the nation at large.

It's not the real Boris. It's a carefully cultivated image. And up until now it has worked extremely well for him.

I agree with that. I just doubt that he is an intelligent as some think the bumbling image is meant to front.

 

[highflyer]

There is no moral code. He enjoys the chase. And that's it. Cummins gives his prime-ministership purpose

I think this is one of the most perceptive comments I have read on this forum, or indeed anywhere else
I'd never looked at it like this before and I think you are absolutely spot on.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

You would think so.

That's what I keep telling myself.

But then you look at Donald Trump telling people that maybe injecting bleach or ultra violet light into the body as a potential cure to Covid-19.

In years gone by such a statement would have been your ticket to the ''Loopey Doo Farm'' - But he is still in touching distance with Biden to be re-elected. Biden should have been out of sight in the polls by now but he isn't.

There is something about the Electorate all around the World that I for the life of me can't put my finger on as to why people like Trump and Johnson have the appeal that they do. And it shows no sign of abating.

I think about this a lot, its interesting. Its something to do with politics being tribal, so similar to football, red versus blue, where winning is the most important thing and it doesn't matter whether you play dirty, foul, cheat the ref, its just the winning that matters and you will defend your side regardless.

All of us are guilty of this to some degree - in a way we have to be because so few people, let alone politicians, are perfect non-hypocritical beings. We hoped Trump or Kavanaugh or Roy Moore would be brought down by revelations of sexual misconduct, but merely wince and then carry on when Biden is tarred with the same brush. Because what else can we do, only Biden can beat Trump now. Bigger picture stuff.

Now of course none of this is new, politics has always been tribal, people have always voted what their family or class or town have voted for generations, its instilled in people. But I think the advent of social media has made us more involved, far more people have influence (or feel they have influence these days). It also opens us up to more people on the other side to have an argument with, like on NSC, back in the 80's and 90's your social grouping tended to be of similar minds, the only people I would argue politics with was my family. Now there are hundreds of people to play this game with, thousands and thousands if you want to be active on Twitter. In America there are whole TV channels devoted to backing their side, in the UK we have newspapers doing that job.

And the more that people belligerently defend their side, the more you are likely to stick your heels in on your side, just driving the divide further apart.

What Trump did brilliantly, that I have never seen before from a top level politician but which is clearly the playbook of the moment, is refuse to apologise. Ever. He just doubled-down, deflected, ignored it, claimed the allegations were lies or smears, blamed the other side and the media - and always, always, presented himself as a tough, strong, in-control man who took no shit. And in a tribal world, that's what we look for in a leader - someone to lead our side, and, perhaps even more importantly, beat the other side. The most revered Brighton managers and players are the ones who talk sh*t about Palace, the ones who become hated by Palace.

The more the enemy hates them, the more we love them. And if they beat the enemy, we love them even more. But if they show weakness, then they lose stature as a leader.

So the masses don't want a leader to unite the people, they want one to beat the other side. Its not a universal, of course, many people in the middle are horrified and want sensible government, and sometimes we get it. Popular opinion was that it was the middle who decided elections. Recent evidence seems to counter that, that if you get a rabid, engaged base you will win on turnout alone without changing anyone's mind. Landslides used to happen when one side was obviously much better than the other, but all elections seem to be close these days. And slogans and campaigns seem different now, everyone campaigns on being the Change candidate, the Outsider candidate, taking down the Political Elite. It used to be about competence and ability and policies.

Both sides do this, so whether it will ever change our political-path long-term, I don't know. But both the Republicans and the Tories saw an opportunity to get the masses from the poorer, more ignored, traditionally-working class parts of the country on their side, saw disillusionment about their traditional left-wing leaders, whether Clinton or Corbyn, and pounced. They've presented tough, take-no-shit leadership and won elections with their support.

We can thank coronavirus for taking the wind out of their sails. In a crisis you need national unity government. In America they have barely attempted it, the cracks are showing and no, I don't think Trump can win in November, not with the economy the way it is. The economy was the only reason he could have been re-elected - he's not liked by the suburbs and his victory in 2016 was driven as much by dislike of Clinton as support for him. Joe Biden, for all his flaws, is an everyman kind of guy. He's acceptable.

As for the UK, Johnson made a good stab at the unity thing, and it was working well enough til fairly recently, but now shattered by the Cummings thing. I don't know whether a full-on Trump style leadership will work here, for one thing I imagine its impossible to turn the media into 'fake news', the BBC are too well respected and the media will on the most part defend their own ahead of the government.

But interesting times, as ever