[Albion] Score early against Brighton is an agreed tactic

[BadFish]

I dont think its particularly fair to make a broad judgement on tactics whilst we're missing the players we are. Would it have been 4-0 if we have had Mitoma, Enciso, March, Adingra, and Fati available? I highly doubt it. Without those we struggle to score, as most would, and althought we're only missing Veltman in defence it gives opposition the freedom to pile forward knowing we're limited in countering them.

Add to this that we have changed our tried and tested formation and tactic and a bit of a hammering against a team that were f***ing up for it wasn't really surprising.

Our major challenge this season has been getting a first 11 on the pitch. That is what has made for a frustrating season (You know, relative to what we all know we could achieve with our best players available more often.)

Sadly the fact is that we are really going to struggle to make Europe again this year. However a mass change in approach and tactics is a bad idea and the very epitome of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep calm and carry on, I say.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I didn’t watch last night but my take is that we are a mid-table team this season, which will come with more defeats than last season. And given the way we play, when we lose we lose spectacularly. It’s a by product of our style.

Whilst disappointed about the defeat I’m not too fussed about the size of it.

 

[Simster]

I didn’t watch last night but my take is that we are a mid-table team this season, which will come with more defeats than last season. And given the way we play, when we lose we lose spectacularly. It’s a by product of our style.

Whilst disappointed about the defeat I’m not too fussed about the size of it.

We are only a mid table team because of our start to the season. But point taken - I feel similarly.

We're actually a relegation form team if you look at the last three months.

 

[Garyoldfan]

When we’ve been battered by obviously worse teams we’ve either been attacked or heavily pressed very early on. Dyche did it at the Amex last season, Wolves tried it last Monday and Luton did it tonight. And Wilder’s comments prove other teams’ coaches are discussing us.

Get an early goal against us and we’re always chasing. Needs tightening up.

It’s all the goalies fault as well .

 

[Motogull]

When we’ve been battered by obviously worse teams we’ve either been attacked or heavily pressed very early on. Dyche did it at the Amex last season, Wolves tried it last Monday and Luton did it tonight. And Wilder’s comments prove other teams’ coaches are discussing us.

Get an early goal against us and we’re always chasing. Needs tightening up.

I think you can expand upon that with:

1. too risky to play football with them
2. they don't like it up them
3. speed it up

In short, get in their faces and push them around.

 

[keaton]

Come on then show me how many goals have come from a flick on the edge of the box. Go on.

All of them, essentially

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Agree, the last 15 months have been an utter disaster.

Very measured reply to a very dense post. Well played.

 

[Baldseagull]

But managers have different approaches offensively and defensively for different opponents. Moyes, Seven Hag and Dyche will frustrate, not minding an 80th minute winner in a 1-0. Whilst Klopp, Ange and Emery go all out. Go a goal down to Villa and it’s game over, for many reasons. Guessing, I wonder if these days many coaches get their teams to put in a big early effort to score against us eg Villa away, Bmuff at the Amex, something they’d have more restraint in against say Moyes, Seven Hag, instead attrition.

But I’mm talking about TRYING to score early. Wolves flew at us from kick off. Luton attacked immediately. Everton’s press at home was most intense from kick off.

They’re all thinking go hard early, because if you get a goal we struggle to break down teams with a low central block and quick break.

Maybe managers choose to press hard early against us, but as our game kind of depends on the opposition pressing us, it's who best executes that gets the goal.

 

[brightn'ove]

We are only a mid table team because of our start to the season. But point taken - I feel similarly.

We're actually a relegation form team if you look at the last three months.

Good thing it’s the whole season that counts and not a portion of it.

 

[Simster]

Good thing it’s the whole season that counts and not a portion of it.

Well yes. That's very very obvious.

But what's the problem with pointing out that we've been in relegation form for the most recent 3 months out of the 5 or 6 months that have made up the season so far?

 

[brightn'ove]

Well yes. That's very very obvious.

But what's the problem with pointing out that we've been in relegation form for the most recent 3 months out of the 5 or 6 months that have made up the season so far?

It’s fine to point out but ‘relegation form’ by definition would see you in the relegation zone by the end of the season. Our form would not. Maybe I’m a bit twitchy after last night but it just feels unnecessarily hyperbolic.

We have the players that helped us to our amazing start coming back, no reason to believe we won’t hit that form again.

 

[Bozza]

Well yes. That's very very obvious.

But what's the problem with pointing out that we've been in relegation form for the most recent 3 months out of the 5 or 6 months that have made up the season so far?

Last three months...

Everton 1 - 1 Albion
Albion 1 - 1 Sheff Utd
Forest 2 - 3 Albion
Chelsea 3 - 2 Albion
Albion 2 - 1 Brentford
Albion 1 - 1 Burnley
Arsenal 2 - 0 Albion
Palace 1 - 1 Albion
Albion 4 - 2 Spurs
West Ham 0 - 0 Albion
Albion 0 - 0 Wolves
Luton 4 - 0 Albion

So, P12 W3 D6 L3 Pts15

Picking up 15 points from every 12 fixtures across a season would give a not-relegated-at-all 47-48 points.

And, of course, over the course of those same three months we've also had:

Ajax 0 - 2 Albion
AEK 0 - 1 Albion
Albion 1 - 0 Marseille
Stoke 2 - 4 Albion
Sheff Utd 2 - 5 Albion

Five wins from five in cup compeititons.

There's been a few disappointing results, but come on - it's a fun ride, isn't it?

 

[Napper]

Last three months...

Everton 1 - 1 Albion
Albion 1 - 1 Sheff Utd
Forest 2 - 3 Albion
Chelsea 3 - 2 Albion
Albion 2 - 1 Brentford
Albion 1 - 1 Burnley
Arsenal 2 - 0 Albion
Palace 1 - 1 Albion
Albion 4 - 2 Spurs
West Ham 0 - 0 Albion
Albion 0 - 0 Wolves
Luton 4 - 0 Albion

So, P12 W3 D6 L3 Pts15

Picking up 15 points from every 12 fixtures across a season would give a not-relegated-at-all 47-48 points.

And, of course, over the course of those same three months we've also had:

Ajax 0 - 2 Albion
AEK 0 - 1 Albion
Albion 1 - 0 Marseille
Stoke 2 - 4 Albion
Sheff Utd 2 - 5 Albion

Five wins from five in cup compeititons.

There's been a few disappointing results, but come on - it's a fun ride, isn't it?

9 unbeaten at home in the league

We must be due a loss .....................

 

[BrickTamland]

Is scoring against the other team a tactic?

 

[Bry Nylon]

We have the players that helped us to our amazing start coming back

What 'amazing start' was that? Did I miss it?

We beat Luton and then Wolves, then lost to West Ham. We then beat Man Utd and Newcastle before losing to Chelsea, followed by Villa ripping us a new one.

I'm not unhappy with any of that by any means, but describing P7 W4 L3 (including a 6-1 defeat) as 'an amazing start' feels like somewhat over-egging it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Is scoring against the other team a tactic?

I've explained this more in reply to @Baldseagull but to put a bit more meat on the bone, I'm really talking about game management here.

Lesser teams in this division simply aren't set up to attack full on / press high non stop throughout a game. You pick your moments or triggers.

To go over a few examples:

Spurs last season would almost always start slowly and pick up in the second half. Spurs this season are much more attacking and keep it that way in games, using a high line to try and bring pressure, but that leaves them open and we loved playing against that.

Leeds under Bielsa tried to attack / press all the time and eventually burned out, with teams exposing them at the back and injuries all over the place (which is starting to be a little worryingly familiar).

Sheffield United at the Amex this season sat deep exclusively and only really got in the game when we had the sending off. Up there in the cup they started slowly and we got into a 2 goal lead. When they had to come back they had some success.

Palace under Vierra gave us a very easy time.

But Everton always start quickly and often burn out. Watch them in a lot of games and they're knackered towards the end. They need to make the most of when they are fit so their maximum effort comes at the start. They scored in the 7th minute up there and the first minute in the 1-5. They need to otherwise they'll get picked off later, but sitting back and hitting on the break with pace is their preferred method.

Wolves flew at us from kick off in the hope of scoring with their first attack. They were much more conservative later in the game, sitting back, flooding the centre and only breaking with two or three players.

Luton again came out of the traps early and shell shocked us. People are complaining about the performance but after three mins we were two down and looking at trying to break down a physical side with little confidence. Had that not paid off again they would have burned out. If you looked at them in our home game they were all dead on 70 mins.

The thread title is poor. Apologies, it was straight after the game and a bit of a flow of conciousness. What I really mean is that sides that have had big wins against us have gambled on early pressure paying off.

 

[brightn'ove]

What 'amazing start' was that? Did I miss it?

We beat Luton and then Wolves, then lost to West Ham. We then beat Man Utd and Newcastle before losing to Chelsea, followed by Villa ripping us a new one.

I'm not unhappy with any of that by any means, but describing P7 W4 L3 (including a 6-1 defeat) as 'an amazing start' feels like somewhat over-egging it.

So are we in bad form now or did we start with bad form? Make up your mind…

You’re also missing our win against Bournemouth so it’s W5 L2 out of our first 7 games.

That’s a pretty good start.

We were flirting with top 4 then top 6, we’re still well within reach of finishing in a European place and you don’t stay there without having a pretty good season so far.

 

[Bry Nylon]

So are we in bad form now or did we start with bad form? Make up your mind…

I don't recall referencing our form, as such, tbf. For what it's worth, I think we are pretty much performing in-line with the capabilities of the squad we have this season - plus associated injuries and the demands of a Euro campaign.

Albion v.23/24 is nowhere near as capable or as easy on the eye as Albion v.22/23 and this is reflected in my expectations.

EDIT: Yes - you're right. I missed the Bournemouth win, so the start is better than my earlier post suggested

 

[Baldseagull]

I've explained this more in reply to @Baldseagull but to put a bit more meat on the bone, I'm really talking about game management here.

Lesser teams in this division simply aren't set up to attack full on / press high non stop throughout a game. You pick your moments or triggers.

To go over a few examples:

Spurs last season would almost always start slowly and pick up in the second half. Spurs this season are much more attacking and keep it that way in games, using a high line to try and bring pressure, but that leaves them open and we loved playing against that.

Leeds under Bielsa tried to attack / press all the time and eventually burned out, with teams exposing them at the back and injuries all over the place (which is starting to be a little worryingly familiar).

Sheffield United at the Amex this season sat deep exclusively and only really got in the game when we had the sending off. Up there in the cup they started slowly and we got into a 2 goal lead. When they had to come back they had some success.

Palace under Vierra gave us a very easy time.

But Everton always start quickly and often burn out. Watch them in a lot of games and they're knackered towards the end. They need to make the most of when they are fit so their maximum effort comes at the start. They scored in the 7th minute up there and the first minute in the 1-5. They need to otherwise they'll get picked off later, but sitting back and hitting on the break with pace is their preferred method.

Wolves flew at us from kick off in the hope of scoring with their first attack. They were much more conservative later in the game, sitting back, flooding the centre and only breaking with two or three players.

Luton again came out of the traps early and shell shocked us. People are complaining about the performance but after three mins we were two down and looking at trying to break down a physical side with little confidence. Had that not paid off again they would have burned out. If you looked at them in our home game they were all dead on 70 mins.

The thread title is poor. Apologies, it was straight after the game and a bit of a flow of conciousness. What I really mean is that sides that have had big wins against us have gambled on early pressure paying off.

I think I get what you are saying now. I don't watch other teams enough to know if what each of them did against us is unusual for them, or if it is the way they generally approach games.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

More importantly now, while our best creative players are injured or abroad.

I dont think its particularly fair to make a broad judgement on tactics whilst we're missing the players we are. Would it have been 4-0 if we have had Mitoma, Enciso, March, Adingra, and Fati available? I highly doubt it. Without those we struggle to score, as most would, and althought we're only missing Veltman in defence it gives opposition the freedom to pile forward knowing we're limited in countering them.

Personally, I think people are giving RDZ too easy a pass (because he's in so much deserved credit, overall).

Yes we have players missing.

But we destroyed Spurs a month ago, and every player who played that night was available to start last night, in the exact formation they'd played that game.

Instead he has to be clever and change it - persisting with the same formation that didn't work against Sheffield United, but that we got away with because they are shit. It was a shambles down the left hand side on Saturday, and exactly the same last night.

RDZ (as he said himself) was 'not good' last night.