[Albion] Score early against Brighton is an agreed tactic

[Guinness Boy]

Personally, I think people are giving RDZ too easy a pass (because he's in so much deserved credit, overall).

Yes we have players missing.

But we destroyed Spurs a month ago, and every player who played that night was available to start last night, in the exact formation they'd played that game.

Instead he has to be clever and change it - persisting with the same formation that didn't work against Sheffield United, but that we got away with because they are shit. It was a shambles down the left hand side on Saturday, and exactly the same last night.

RDZ (as he said himself) was 'not good' last night.

It's a little more chicken and egg than that.

I think we're both agreed that formation really doesn't suit us and we got away with it to an extent on Saturday. I take the point about Spurs too.

Nevertheless, I think he's trying it in games where he wants width because all our wingers are injured or away. We simply wouldn't need to entertain it with March, Adingra, Mitoma and Enciso to pick from.

Probably our best combinations are Veltman / March on the right and Estupinian / Mitoma on the left. For various reasons we've hardly seen them this season. Add to that Ferguson's lack of form and having to rely on Gilmour and Gross to win the ball centrally and it's no wonder we've dropped off.

 

[MJsGhost]

What I really mean is that sides that have had big wins against us have gambled on early pressure paying off.

This makes sense.

Perhaps it is seen as worth the extra risk of conceding in the first 5/10 mins by going all out, because if they do score, we'll be vulnerable to the counter when chasing and it's a different game.

If we score early as a result of extra risks taken by the oppo, that's the price to pay for the risk taken & maybe just seen as hastening the inevitable because if they sat back / played normal tempo football we'd just pass them to death and pick them off eventually anyway.

 

[MJsGhost]

I didn’t watch last night but my take is that we are a mid-table team this season, which will come with more defeats than last season. And given the way we play, when we lose we lose spectacularly. It’s a by product of our style.

Whilst disappointed about the defeat I’m not too fussed about the size of it.

When RdZ joined, I remember Italian football pundits (probably James Horncastle & Nicky Bandini) saying that his teams are never too far away from a really bad result - they can go toe-to-toe with anyone, but likewise can be on the wrong end of an unexpected drubbing because he will stick to his philosophy no matter what.

 

[amexer]

We thrashed Spurs but they were all over us in first 10mins and missed at least 2 goals.

 

[The Optimist]

What 'amazing start' was that? Did I miss it?

We beat Luton and then Wolves, then lost to West Ham. We then beat Man Utd and Newcastle before losing to Chelsea, followed by Villa ripping us a new one.

I'm not unhappy with any of that by any means, but describing P7 W4 L3 (including a 6-1 defeat) as 'an amazing start' feels like somewhat over-egging it.

In fairness half of our league wins (4) came in the opening 5 games. We have then won 4 from the next 17. That’s a pretty stark comparison.

Once we get our injured players back and if we avoid too many more injuries I think we’ll get far more than 4 wins from our next 16 games.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Press Brighton high man-to-man is definitely a tactic.

 

[dwayne]

Press Brighton high man-to-man is definitely a tactic.

Yep

I think we are lucky not many teams have had the balls to do this. We could have been pounded a few more times if they had.

 

[raymondo]

I dont think its particularly fair to make a broad judgement on tactics whilst we're missing the players we are. Would it have been 4-0 if we have had Mitoma, Enciso, March, Adingra, and Fati available? I highly doubt it. Without those we struggle to score, as most would, and althought we're only missing Veltman in defence it gives opposition the freedom to pile forward knowing we're limited in countering them.

I know we're missing those, but we've got Pedro, Welbeck, Ferguson...are we saying they are not a threat?

 

[warmleyseagull]

I've explained this more in reply to @Baldseagull but to put a bit more meat on the bone, I'm really talking about game management here.

Lesser teams in this division simply aren't set up to attack full on / press high non stop throughout a game. You pick your moments or triggers.

To go over a few examples:

Spurs last season would almost always start slowly and pick up in the second half. Spurs this season are much more attacking and keep it that way in games, using a high line to try and bring pressure, but that leaves them open and we loved playing against that.

Leeds under Bielsa tried to attack / press all the time and eventually burned out, with teams exposing them at the back and injuries all over the place (which is starting to be a little worryingly familiar).

Sheffield United at the Amex this season sat deep exclusively and only really got in the game when we had the sending off. Up there in the cup they started slowly and we got into a 2 goal lead. When they had to come back they had some success.

Palace under Vierra gave us a very easy time.

But Everton always start quickly and often burn out. Watch them in a lot of games and they're knackered towards the end. They need to make the most of when they are fit so their maximum effort comes at the start. They scored in the 7th minute up there and the first minute in the 1-5. They need to otherwise they'll get picked off later, but sitting back and hitting on the break with pace is their preferred method.

Wolves flew at us from kick off in the hope of scoring with their first attack. They were much more conservative later in the game, sitting back, flooding the centre and only breaking with two or three players.

Luton again came out of the traps early and shell shocked us. People are complaining about the performance but after three mins we were two down and looking at trying to break down a physical side with little confidence. Had that not paid off again they would have burned out. If you looked at them in our home game they were all dead on 70 mins.

The thread title is poor. Apologies, it was straight after the game and a bit of a flow of conciousness. What I really mean is that sides that have had big wins against us have gambled on early pressure paying off.

I think that is right, Grab a couple and sit on it. What I would like to see is some bluff calling by RDZ. Try that and we'll long ball you as you will have more players upfield. A couple of goal kicks beyond the penalty area might set the scene. The tactic might even work in reverse: we score early, they cant sit back all game.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think that is right, Grab a couple and sit on it. What I would like to see is some bluff calling by RDZ. Try that and we'll long ball you as you will have more players upfield. A couple of goal kicks beyond the penalty area might set the scene. The tactic might even work in reverse: we score early, they cant sit back all game.

We'll be working on things, I'm sure of that. RDZ gets our fanbase and he won't want Tuesday to happen again against our rivals. I'm sure that better passing under pressure and breaking the press with longer passes will both be on the agenda.

Going ahead is the way to go with Palace. I know they clawed it back up there last season but that was with the help of a disallowed goal that should have stood for us and Sanchez chucking it in for them. At home, once Solly had scored they looked a bit bereft of ideas.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think that is right, Grab a couple and sit on it. What I would like to see is some bluff calling by RDZ. Try that and we'll long ball you as you will have more players upfield. A couple of goal kicks beyond the penalty area might set the scene. The tactic might even work in reverse: we score early, they cant sit back all game.

We've done it before (Steel to Mitoma v Brentford, and to Adingra in one of the US tour games, for example), and I'm sure would do it again, in games where we have anyone playing up front, capable of more than a brisk trot.