Scientology

[FatSuperman]

This thread was great, I actually read through the whole lot. I'm yet to read an internet thread on religion where anyone gets converted one way or another.

I'm raised Christian but am an atheist - I actively do not believe in any god. I do not accept any description of god and I believe my actions are all my own choice, influenced of course by my upbringing and experience. Just like Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot's actions were. I'm trying to raise my children without being obviously anti-religion as this will ultimately be their choice, but realistically I'll be surprised if they suddenly start believing one day. I like a lot of the traditions of religion, I love the buildings and the art and the history is fascinating. But I will never believe in the figurehead.

The notion half a dozen pages ago that people become religious even without any teaching tickled me. It's farcical in my opinion. Surely nobody would spontaneously become religious without some kind of outside influence, whether that's books, lectures, etc. Seeing a 'miracle' shouldn't cause someone to believe in a god as there is no reason they'd come to that conclusion without prior knowledge of what god means. Throughout history people have attributed the unknown to supernatural effects or entities, and relentlessly these things are proven to be explainable, once the right level of understanding or observation has happened.

I'm not suggesting religions are bad, I just feel that I can give my children the correct moral upbringing without them.

 

[symyjym]

Millions of people worldwide would disagree with you.

Do you meditate?

I went to a meditating class with a couple of friends as a teenager and I had an out of body experience, my friends didn't. I thought it was interesting but I have also had the same experience when falling asleep or waking up with sleep paralysis. It feels like your mind is being sucked out of your head.

 

[Notters]

Your statement underlines the problem with discussions around religion on this message board. There is always the tendency firstly to lump all religions in to the same pot, this then conveniently allows people to use the old testament version of god to support their argument that all religions are flawed and to dismiss every concept of God. The second thing is to find examples of where people who follow a faith have done bad things and to use these examples to make the argument that religion itself is bad and leads to bad things.

I felt I wanted to respond to your statement above because I am a practicing Buddhist. Buddhism encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and spiritual practices based around the teachings of the buddha. Just because some buddhists somewhere at some time may have been involved in the tiger trade does not means that buddhism relies on the tiger trade!

In terms of 'handouts' Its true that Buddhist monks usually rely on the local 'lay' community to provide material and economic support to the temples and monasteries. However this is usually a reciprocal arrangement where the local community receive spiritual support from the community of monks and also use the temples, monasteries and their facilities for their buddhist practice. Its also best not to assume that the monks have the easiest part of this arrangement without proper knowledge, they have to follow 227 strict rules and undertake a refined disciplined training of body, speech and mind. Most monks also work and are given specific roles to play in the day-to-day running and maintenance of the temple and its surroundings.

Buddhism is actually a good example of why we shouldn't dismiss all religious or spiritual practices out of hand. Meditation has been scientifically proven to enhance mood and reduce stress and actually changes the structure of the brain. The practice of mindfulness is now available on the NHS as a way to treat depression and anxiety and many of the ideas of the Buddha have now been widely accepted and used by modern western psychology.

I'm not sure of your point. I meditate and actively practice mindfulness but I'm not religious.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

I'm not suggesting religions are bad, I just feel that I can give my children the correct moral upbringing without them.

Entirely respect your approach, but on what do you base your judgement on what is 'correct' or 'moral'? Genuinely curious to know where you feel your values come from?

 

[symyjym]

Entirely respect your approach, but on what do you base your judgement on what is 'correct' or 'moral'? Genuinely curious to know where you feel your values come from?

A good chimpanzee knows a bad chimpanzee when they see one. Primates live in complex social structures and they need to work together to survive. They have their unwritten rules of what is right and wrong, they feel love and hate, joy and sadness, empathy etc. If they didn't do they would be extinct. So yes they have a certain sense of what we call morality and an inner reasoning of what is good for them is good for others.

 

[One Love]

I went to a meditating class with a couple of friends as a teenager and I had an out of body experience, my friends didn't. I thought it was interesting but I have also had the same experience when falling asleep or waking up with sleep paralysis. It feels like your mind is being sucked out of your head.

Were you still conscious here at the time, would you have been able to open your eyes and be back in the room at any time?

 

[symyjym]

Were you still conscious here at the time, would you have been able to open your eyes and be back in the room at any time?

When I meditated that one time I was conscious of my mind being pulled out of my head and I pulled it back . I used to get the same feeling with sleep paralysis and always fought with it, but now when I get it I go with the flow and fall asleep.

Meditation just puts your body into a sleeping state and your mind into a conscious dreamscape. Some people believe it is an astral flight or projection but it's a conscious dream.

 

[Buzzer]

If you are alluding to the Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler argument some say it's a fallacy.

https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordp...in-pol-pot-in-memory-of-christopher-hitchens/.

I'm pretty sure that over 100 million people have been murdered in the name of socialism in the 20th Century. I never stated that it was done in the name of atheism but it certainly was done for a socialist belief system/ideology.

 

[Half Time Pies]

I haven't got a problem with Buddhists it was just an afterthought on the basis of the Tiger Temple which to me is a contradiction to their belief system. Drugging tigers so tourists can walk with them on a lead for a photo is absurd.

Meditation is fine but in reality is probably no more beneficial than sleep. From what I understand Buddha spent all his life trying to break the cycle of reincarnation. He wanted his journey to end as a human and didn’t fancy being a spider or any other creature in his next lives.

Are you trying to avoid reincarnation too?

There is no huge jump in faith required to be a buddhist, when people asked Buddha what he was teaching, he said he teaches "the way things are." He said nobody should believe his teachings out of faith, but instead they should examine for themselves to see if they are true or not.

I came to it over 10 years ago due to a general feeling of life being unsatisfactory, at the time I was drinking heavily, depressed, going through relationship problems and didn't seem to have any purpose or direction. I also had very little compassion for myself or others.

I started with meditation which very quickly had a profound affect on me, the meditation brought me in contact with buddhism, over time I have used various parts of the teachings to refine my own practice. Buddhism gave me a blue-print for living and a way out of the continued feeling of life being unsatisfactory. Fast-forward 10 years and My wife and I have been together for 18 years have 2 small children and run a successful business which benefits the community. Without Buddhism and meditation there is no doubt my life would have taken a much more negative path.

 

[One Love]

When I meditated that one time I was conscious of my mind being pulled out of my head and I pulled it back . I used to get the same feeling with sleep paralysis and always fought with it, but now when I get it I go with the flow and fall asleep.

Meditation just puts your body into a sleeping state and your mind into a conscious dreamscape. Some people believe it is an astral flight or projection but it's a conscious dream.

No it's not.

At least you are giving expert opinion after your own experience, even if it is only one

Meditation is an exploration of consciousness. It sounds like you went into your subconscious which is not the intention with most meditators.

Meditation for me is to go into higher consciousness. During that you are still here and conscious.

 

[symyjym]

There is no huge jump in faith required to be a buddhist, when people asked Buddha what he was teaching, he said he teaches "the way things are." He said nobody should believe his teachings out of faith, but instead they should examine for themselves to see if they are true or not.

I came to it over 10 years ago due to a general feeling of life being unsatisfactory, at the time I was drinking heavily, depressed, going through relationship problems and didn't seem to have any purpose or direction. I also had very little compassion for myself or others.

I started with meditation which very quickly had a profound affect on me, the meditation brought me in contact with buddhism, over time I have used various parts of the teachings to refine my own practice. Buddhism gave me a blue-print for living and a way out of the continued feeling of life being unsatisfactory. Fast-forward 10 years and My wife and I have been together for 18 years have 2 small children and run a successful business which benefits the community. Without Buddhism and meditation there is no doubt my life would have taken a much more negative path.

You have a mild form of westernised Buddhism I would argue that you already knew where you were going wrong and you took responsibility for it. Maybe Buddhism gave you a kick up the backside because it teaches discipline.

I don't have a problem with Buddhism because it doesn't insist on total commitment and the door is always open. It also doesn't rely on threats of eternal hell.

 

[symyjym]

No it's not.

At least you are giving expert opinion after your own experience, even if it is only one

Meditation is an exploration of consciousness. It sounds like you went into your subconscious which is not the intention with most meditators.

Meditation for me is to go into higher consciousness. During that you are still here and conscious.

Well tell me of your experiences? Where do you go and what do you see?

 

[Half Time Pies]

I'm not sure of your point. I meditate and actively practice mindfulness but I'm not religious.

The meditation and mindfulness practices followed today have their roots in buddhism and the teachings of the buddha, its only recently that we in the west have realised the benefits and incorporated the practice in to our own lives. The point being that if we had dismissed the teachings of the buddha out of hand as religious mumbo-jumbo then millions of people worldwide would have missed out on the hugely beneficial practice of mindfulness meditation.

 

[One Love]

Well tell me of your experiences? Where do you go and what do you see?

For me it's not about seeing stuff, even though that happens sometimes. It's about becoming more and more aware of what/who we really are and developing understanding of everything.

 

[symyjym]

For me it's not about seeing stuff, even though that happens sometimes. It's about becoming more and more aware of what/who we really are and developing understanding of everything.

You must be visually aware of something dark light white noise? So you never get the feeling that your mind is being pulled up through your head?

How do you determine that becoming wiser is not down to maturity and that you have to be a Buddhist to develop an understanding of as much as we can? (Everything is quite a claim)

 

[Triggaaar]

I went to a meditating class with a couple of friends as a teenager and I had an out of body experience, my friends didn't. I thought it was interesting but I have also had the same experience when falling asleep or waking up with sleep paralysis. It feels like your mind is being sucked out of your head.

I've had similar experiences when reading posts on NSC.

 

[One Love]

You must be visually aware of something dark light white noise? So you never get the feeling that your mind is being pulled up through your head?

How do you determine that becoming wiser is not down to maturity and that you have to be a Buddhist to develop an understanding of as much as we can? (Everything is quite a claim)

I'm not particularly aware of anything visually, it's all down to the feeling. I do know what you mean about your mind being pulled through your head.

We are ultimately just consciousness so it makes sense to explore it yourself rather than let anyone else determine your beliefs etc, to get a greater understanding. Everything is what I believe is the goal, how far we can get along the path, who knows!

 

[Paskman]

I've had similar experiences when reading posts on NSC.

Especially some in this thread............good grief some of the posters even live in Darlington!

 

[One Love]

The meditation and mindfulness practices followed today have their roots in buddhism and the teachings of the buddha, its only recently that we in the west have realised the benefits and incorporated the practice in to our own lives. The point being that if we had dismissed the teachings of the buddha out of hand as religious mumbo-jumbo then millions of people worldwide would have missed out on the hugely beneficial practice of mindfulness meditation.

I agree.

Whilst I don't follow any particular religion, I do think they have given humanity guidance along the way on the journey to understanding ourselves.

 

[symyjym]

I've had similar experiences when reading posts on NSC.

Similar but It feels more like ones mind is being sucked out of ones ar5e.