Scientology

[Gullflyinghigh]

That was on TV as one of his programmes a couple of years ago.
It was all very odd.

Not sure if this has already been said but there's a new Louis Theroux documentary on Scientology due out in (I think) October this year, it's unrelated to any previous show he may have done...looks good too!

 

[NooBHA]

But faith isn't of an individual, because people pass it on to their children and preachers preach it etc.

He doesn't seem to be tolerating those who don't believe in a made up god.

Everything we learn in life and know in life is taught to us by someone whether it be our teachers or peers or parents. We then have a choice whether we adopt this for ourselves. I am perfect example of being brought up as Catholic but have chosen not to adopt it for myself.

I think that phrase is tolerant. You may be correct that it is a made up God. I tend to agree with you but others may not.

''God'' in itself is a made up word. In fact to some until yesterday Dale Stephens may have been a ''God'' and today he is not. For me God is a terminology to others it means something very different. Like you I believe God is not real but to others God is very real and I am happy with both my own and their choosing on how it is perceived

 

[looney]

You seem to have very strong opinions on everything under the sun!

There are plenty of issues I dont care about. Although I would be happy to see religion tossed in the dustbin of history.

 

[looney]

Do you know what an idiom is?

Plural of idiot?

 

[Triggaaar]

Everything we learn in life and know in life is taught to us by someone whether it be our teachers or peers or parents. We then have a choice whether we adopt this for ourselves.

I'm only disagreeing with the idea that faith is of an individual, because children are easily manipulated and they believe what they're told to believe. Of course some, certainly like me, don't tend to believe things just because we're told them.

Still, I've no problem with people being religious, even them passing it on to their children, if their belief is that they should be good

You may be correct that it is a made up God. I tend to agree with you but others may not.

Even those that don't agree, will still agree with me about 99% of gods.

Like you I believe God is not real but to others God is very real and I am happy with both my own and their choosing on how it is perceived

Likewise.

I'm not even against the idea that there could be some sort of god or creator, I just don't believe that any of the gods people worship are the real one.

 

[symyjym]

Everything we learn in life and know in life is taught to us by someone whether it be our teachers or peers or parents. We then have a choice whether we adopt this for ourselves. I am perfect example of being brought up as Catholic but have chosen not to adopt it for myself.

I think that phrase is tolerant. You may be correct that it is a made up God. I tend to agree with you but others may not.

''God'' in itself is a made up word. In fact to some until yesterday Dale Stephens may have been a ''God'' and today he is not. For me God is a terminology to others it means something very different. Like you I believe God is not real but to others God is very real and I am happy with both my own and their choosing on how it is perceived

The Abrahamic religions have historically caused more problems than they have solved though. I cannot speak for other religions but even Buddhism relies on the tiger trade and handouts from people who have to work for a living.

 

[NooBHA]

The Abrahamic religions have historically caused more problems than they have solved though. I cannot speak for other religions but even Buddhism relies on the tiger trade and handouts from people who have to work for a living.

That's true of the Abrahamic Religions but that's mainly due to there being so many fractions of it.

Christianity is the same look at the divide between Catholic and Protestant in Scotland in Ireland in modern times and in the past where in Scotland, Catholics were persecuted after the ''Reformation'' and in France where Protestants were persecuted and Hugonot's had to flee France for being Protestant.

In Israel, Jewish Fundamentalists frown on more moderate Jews - The list could go on in every religion. Extremity and non tolerance are the problems within Religion, not the religions themselves

 

[symyjym]

That's true of the Abrahamic Religions but that's mainly due to there being so many fractions of it.

Christianity is the same look at the divide between Catholic and Protestant in Scotland in Ireland in modern times and in the past where in Scotland, Catholics were persecuted after the ''Reformation'' and in France where Protestants were persecuted and Hugonot's had to flee France for being Protestant.

In Israel, Jewish Fundamentalists frown on more moderate Jews - The list could go on in every religion. Extremity and non tolerance are the problems within Religion, not the religions themselves

Religion can psychologically damage people if in the wrong hands, which historically it has. Americans are well known for being duped into faith healing conventions and the minister will preach with a smile from the Devil.

I don’t ever hear any “moderate Christians” or even the Pope condemning or critisising this faith healing scam so by turning a blind eye they are complicit in it. If we took the humans out of religion there would be no religion so it cannot really be treated as a separate entity.

 

[Buzzer]

The Abrahamic religions have historically caused more problems than they have solved though.

Hmm...I think that the 20th century has shown us all that non-religious ideologies have been capable of horrific things and genocides that are unprecedented in history. It kind of suggests that the problem isn't with religion or any particular belief system but how it's applied. It also suggests to me that there would have been huge injustice, corruption and power unfairly concentrated in the hands of a minority against the majority even if the the big three religions hadn't existed.

The Protestant Reformation in particular has been one of the biggest single reasons that we enjoy so much freedom today and why we enjoy such a high standard of living. It had huge ramifications for politics, arts and the sciences. Of course there are still huge problems and still too many bad guys but all in all, historically Judaeo-Christian countries are the ones that offer the greatest freedom and opportunities. That can't be a coincidence.

 

[NooBHA]

Religion can psychologically damage people if in the wrong hands, which historically it has. Americans are well known for being duped into faith healing conventions and the minister will preach with a smile from the Devil.

I don’t ever hear any “moderate Christians” or even the Pope condemning or critisising this faith healing scam so by turning a blind eye they are complicit in it. If we took the humans out of religion there would be no religion so it cannot really be treated as a separate entity.

Well there are many forms of condemnation or in some cased ''non condemnation'' which are not healthy. Not even this Pope who I find to be moderate, but no Pope yet has come out and supported ''contraception'' - Thus millions of Catholic WOMEN in Africa being infected with HIV and aids because of it. many of them through sex from their husbands after they have had sex with prostitutes. Despite this no Pope has sanctioned the use of condoms.

So no action a well as po-action can be just as bad

 

[Half Time Pies]

The Abrahamic religions have historically caused more problems than they have solved though. I cannot speak for other religions but even Buddhism relies on the tiger trade and handouts from people who have to work for a living.

Your statement underlines the problem with discussions around religion on this message board. There is always the tendency firstly to lump all religions in to the same pot, this then conveniently allows people to use the old testament version of god to support their argument that all religions are flawed and to dismiss every concept of God. The second thing is to find examples of where people who follow a faith have done bad things and to use these examples to make the argument that religion itself is bad and leads to bad things.

I felt I wanted to respond to your statement above because I am a practicing Buddhist. Buddhism encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and spiritual practices based around the teachings of the buddha. Just because some buddhists somewhere at some time may have been involved in the tiger trade does not means that buddhism relies on the tiger trade!

In terms of 'handouts' Its true that Buddhist monks usually rely on the local 'lay' community to provide material and economic support to the temples and monasteries. However this is usually a reciprocal arrangement where the local community receive spiritual support from the community of monks and also use the temples, monasteries and their facilities for their buddhist practice. Its also best not to assume that the monks have the easiest part of this arrangement without proper knowledge, they have to follow 227 strict rules and undertake a refined disciplined training of body, speech and mind. Most monks also work and are given specific roles to play in the day-to-day running and maintenance of the temple and its surroundings.

Buddhism is actually a good example of why we shouldn't dismiss all religious or spiritual practices out of hand. Meditation has been scientifically proven to enhance mood and reduce stress and actually changes the structure of the brain. The practice of mindfulness is now available on the NHS as a way to treat depression and anxiety and many of the ideas of the Buddha have now been widely accepted and used by modern western psychology.

 

[symyjym]

Hmm...I think that the 20th century has shown us all that non-religious ideologies have been capable of horrific things and genocides that are unprecedented in history. It kind of suggests that the problem isn't with religion or any particular belief system but how it's applied. It also suggests to me that there would have been huge injustice, corruption and power unfairly concentrated in the hands of a minority against the majority even if the the big three religions hadn't existed.

The Protestant Reformation in particular has been one of the biggest single reasons that we enjoy so much freedom today and why we enjoy such a high standard of living. It had huge ramifications for politics, arts and the sciences. Of course there are still huge problems and still too many bad guys but all in all, historically Judaeo-Christian countries are the ones that offer the greatest freedom and opportunities. That can't be a coincidence.

If you are alluding to the Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler argument some say it's a fallacy.

https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordp...in-pol-pot-in-memory-of-christopher-hitchens/

I think it is handy for the cannon fodder to believe in God as it saves having to explain the politics to the masses. They will either have to believe in God or they will pray that there is a God. Religion is a byproduct of dealing with death, and in war there are lots of deaths which means more religion.

Historically there is also the prospect of new land, riches and booty but even then it is handy if everyone believes in a divine right or predestined supernatural destiny to the claim. God willing and all that.

 

[Half Time Pies]

If you are alluding to the Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler argument some say it's a fallacy.

https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordp...in-pol-pot-in-memory-of-christopher-hitchens/

I think it is handy for the cannon fodder to believe in God as it saves having to explain the politics to the masses. They will either have to believe in God or they will pray that there is a God. Religion is a byproduct of dealing with death, and in war there are lots of deaths which means more religion.

Historically there is also the prospect of new land, riches and booty but even then it is handy if everyone believes in a divine right or predestined supernatural destiny to the claim. God willing and all that.

The article you posted again shows up this problem, the author has taken the fact that Pol Pot may have called himself a buddhist as proof that his actions were driven by his Buddhist beliefs. The actions of Pol Pot in murdering over 25,000 buddhist monks and destroying 95% of all buddhist temples in Cambodia however do not back up this argument. The fact that Pol Pot may or may not have been a Buddhist or an atheist is neither here nor there, he was an evil misguided person with the control and power of the people driving his actions. These types of people will use anything they can to bring some form of rationality to their actions.

There are evil buddhists and there are evil atheists however anyone who has studied and/ or followed Theravada Buddhism will support the fact that this certainly not a religion that allows for the killing of anyone.

 

[Insel affe]

The one and only true early religion documented is Ma'at which is more a moral code that the early Egyptians based their religion from the early Sumerian culture and in turn the nomadic tribes (Hykos) who concurred Egypt briefly later became the Jews who changed aspects to suit their needs and idiology / political agendas of the time even the story of the flood and a god born of a virgin are thousands of years older than the bible or before the Jewish faith. Then history repeats it's self with Christianity and Islam all plagiarised stories adapted for political ends at the time by leaders to meet their own ends and subdue any threats.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Do you know what an idiom is?

I sure feel like an idiom for not knowing.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I sure feel like an idiom for not knowing.

Oxymoron!

 

[Albion my Albion]

Oxymoron!

Wait, I do know how to use Oxyclean.

 

[symyjym]

Your statement underlines the problem with discussions around religion on this message board. There is always the tendency firstly to lump all religions in to the same pot, this then conveniently allows people to use the old testament version of god to support their argument that all religions are flawed and to dismiss every concept of God. The second thing is to find examples of where people who follow a faith have done bad things and to use these examples to make the argument that religion itself is bad and leads to bad things.

I felt I wanted to respond to your statement above because I am a practicing Buddhist. Buddhism encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and spiritual practices based around the teachings of the buddha. Just because some buddhists somewhere at some time may have been involved in the tiger trade does not means that buddhism relies on the tiger trade!

In terms of 'handouts' Its true that Buddhist monks usually rely on the local 'lay' community to provide material and economic support to the temples and monasteries. However this is usually a reciprocal arrangement where the local community receive spiritual support from the community of monks and also use the temples, monasteries and their facilities for their buddhist practice. Its also best not to assume that the monks have the easiest part of this arrangement without proper knowledge, they have to follow 227 strict rules and undertake a refined disciplined training of body, speech and mind. Most monks also work and are given specific roles to play in the day-to-day running and maintenance of the temple and its surroundings.

Buddhism is actually a good example of why we shouldn't dismiss all religious or spiritual practices out of hand. Meditation has been scientifically proven to enhance mood and reduce stress and actually changes the structure of the brain. The practice of mindfulness is now available on the NHS as a way to treat depression and anxiety and many of the ideas of the Buddha have now been widely accepted and used by modern western psychology.

I haven't got a problem with Buddhists it was just an afterthought on the basis of the Tiger Temple which to me is a contradiction to their belief system. Drugging tigers so tourists can walk with them on a lead for a photo is absurd.

Meditation is fine but in reality is probably no more beneficial than sleep. From what I understand Buddha spent all his life trying to break the cycle of reincarnation. He wanted his journey to end as a human and didn’t fancy being a spider or any other creature in his next lives.

Are you trying to avoid reincarnation too?

 

[symyjym]

The article you posted again shows up this problem, the author has taken the fact that Pol Pot may have called himself a buddhist as proof that his actions were driven by his Buddhist beliefs. The actions of Pol Pot in murdering over 25,000 buddhist monks and destroying 95% of all buddhist temples in Cambodia however do not back up this argument. The fact that Pol Pot may or may not have been a Buddhist or an atheist is neither here nor there, he was an evil misguided person with the control and power of the people driving his actions. These types of people will use anything they can to bring some form of rationality to their actions.

There are evil buddhists and there are evil atheists however anyone who has studied and/ or followed Theravada Buddhism will support the fact that this certainly not a religion that allows for the killing of anyone.

I agree. That article was just an argumentation that was inspired in memory of Hitchens. That said by murdering Buddhist monks and destroying of temples is still inspired by religion even if it is just a hate for it. Most people in history who take others into battle have some deluded self driven fantasy of a divine right and destiny. Religion or belief is a state of mind with a false sense of duty.

 

[One Love]

Meditation is fine but in reality is probably no more beneficial than sleep.

Millions of people worldwide would disagree with you.

Do you meditate?