Scientology

[symyjym]

Love is just a human construct. There is no proof it's a real thing.

Are you talking about the same love that God gives us when he casts us into hell for not believing in him. Or the same love God when casts ill and deformed children to be born into this world to suffer etc etc etc?

 

[thejackal]

Looks bonkers.

https://youtu.be/UFBZ_uAbxS0

F*cking narcissism, pure and simple.

 

[symyjym]

Yes, I am far superior to your budgie.

Unless you can fly I would disagree with you.

 

[One Love]

Are you talking about the same love that God gives us when he casts us into hell for not believing in him. Or the same love God when casts ill and deformed children to be born into this world to suffer etc etc etc?

A loving God wouldn't do that, obviously.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

I like Jesus, but I don't believe he was anything other than a man with a message, and that the message was pretty similar to that of Bill and Ted, Be excellent to each other.

That's really not the full picture though, if you dig more deeply into what he actually said and did.
He said he was God. He said he'd be killed and come back to life. That's what Christians believe he did.
As CS Lewis has argued, he's either mad (ie deluded), bad (ie deliberately manipulating and evil, looking to usurp God) or actually who he says he is.
There are some good short videos in the Christianity Explored series that look into this. Here's one:

 

[Solid at the back]

All religion is bollocks, you are very gullable people if you believe in any type of this shit

 

[Megazone]

F*cking narcissism, pure and simple.

What do you mean by narcissism?

If anything, Scientology targets empaths. Narcissstic people wouldn´t get sucked into it. They´re too self absorbed to be able to give themselves up for some weird belief. Scientology is probably run by a bunch of covert narcissists pretending to be some sort of angel being. These sort of people exist in the charity sector too.

 

[symyjym]

I like Jesus, but I don't believe he was anything other than a man with a message, and that the message was pretty similar to that of Bill and Ted, Be excellent to each other.

Jesus wanted to abandon the vengeful laws of the Jews. The core of his teaching was a "new commandment" to love one another, to love your neighbor as yourself, to forgive your enemies, etc.

His message is compatible with atheism. He basically died a horrible death for trying to change things and we don’t need God to understand the story better. He was also not considered full blooded Jew and was part of their underclass.

The Didache is the earliest teachings of Jesus, written within his family’s lifetime, unadulterated and not canonised. http://www.thedidache.com It all makes rational sense what he was trying to teach.

The historical Jesus is far more interesting than the supernatural Jesus.

 

[thejackal]

What do you mean by narcissism?

If anything, Scientology targets empaths. Narcissstic people wouldn´t get sucked into it. They´re too self absorbed to be able to give themselves up for some weird belief. Scientology is probably run by a bunch of covert narcissists pretending to be some sort of angel being. These sort of people exist in the charity sector too.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=narcissism

"excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance"

It's great that Tom knows he's the only one that can help.....

 

[thejackal]

All religion is bollocks, you are very gullable people if you believe in any type of this shit

Is the correct answer, IMHO

 

[thejackal]

That's really not the full picture though, if you dig more deeply into what he actually said and did.
He said he was God. He said he'd be killed and come back to life. That's what Christians believe he did.
As CS Lewis has argued, he's either mad (ie deluded), bad (ie deliberately manipulating and evil, looking to usurp God) or actually who he says he is.
There are some good short videos in the Christianity Explored series that look into this. Here's one:

Jesus, you can see why they disabled comments on that video.

Why do so many idiots believe that this guy, whose very existence cannot be definitively proved, died and came back to life 3 days later? I'm a rational person and I believe there are many things that we as human beings don't know or comprehend but it doesn't make me believe in God. I'd rather have faith in myself and other people, rather than some imaginary bullshit.

 

[thejackal]

I think you will struggle to find any academic (or educated person in general) who doubts that a bloke called Jesus Christ existed.

There are more than enough near contemporaneous (within a few decades of his death) accounts of his life by non-Christian sources, such as famous Roman scribes (eg Tacitus), Greek scholars, Jewish historians, etc.

Certainly there's as much (if not more) 'evidence' for him having existed as there is for many/most other historical figures from 2,000+ years ago.

Anyone who thinks Jesus doesn't exist is as just barmy as anyone who thinks he was the Son of God imho.

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If you can point me in the direction of any reference to Jesus Christ the person when he was still alive, I would be very happy to review it. Some discussions on the subject:

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/01/149462376/did-jesus-exist-a-historian-makes-his-case

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/...bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

Remember, of course, that 'Christ' is a title, not a name. There are references to a 'Christ' after his supposed death, but they may or may not refer to any number of people.

To say that no scholars seriously doubt that this guy ever existed is tenuous in the extreme.

 

[symyjym]

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If you can point me in the direction of any reference to Jesus Christ the person when he was still alive, I would be very happy to review it. Some discussions on the subject:

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

Your 3rd link ends with the following statement:

"There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie."

 

[thejackal]

Your 3rd link ends with the following statement:

"There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie."

That, to me, is no proof at all.

Millions of idiots are happy to die for their religions now. Is that proof that Jesus existed? I really don't think so!

 

[symyjym]

That, to me, is no proof at all.

Millions of idiots are happy to die for their religions now. Is that proof that God is real? I really don't think so!

You were not talking about whether God is real or not. You were saying that there is no proof that Jesus even existed historically.

That quote from your link "There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus.................." disagrees with you and gives just one example.

 

[thejackal]

You were not talking about whether God is real or not. You were saying that there is no proof that Jesus even existed historically.

That quote from your link "There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus.................." disagrees with you and gives just one example.

I meant Jesus, and corrected my post 10 minutes before you replied to it.

That that quote sites the fact that people were willing to die for a religious/spiritual cause as "perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist" shows how little evidence there actually is. That's opinion, not evidence.

 

[symyjym]

I meant Jesus, and corrected my post 10 minutes before you replied to it.

That that quote sites the fact that people were willing to die for a religious/spiritual cause as "perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist" shows how little evidence there actually is. That's opinion, not evidence.

You are not looking at this right. These were people of the time when everyone believed in God, and Jesus was a wise friend who they believed had a connection with God.

All or most of his apostles died a horrible death for basically teaching what Jesus taught, and 12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end.

Anyway it was your link that summarised the opposite of what you tried to prove. If you didn’t read the bit at the end it shows that you are just cherry picking on a scan read and not really researching the subject.

 

[thejackal]

You are not looking at this right. These were people of the time when everyone believed in God, and Jesus was a wise friend who they believed had a connection with God.

All or most of his apostles died a horrible death for basically teaching what Jesus taught, and 12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end.

Anyway it was your link that summarised the opposite of what you tried to prove. If you didn’t read the bit at the end it shows that you are just cherry picking on a scan read and not really researching the subject.

Actually, no. You're wrong on more than 1 point here.

Firstly, only the Abrahamic traditions were monotheistic. Most of the word's inhabitants were still followers of 'Gods', not just one.

Secondly, your assertion that "12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end" is, again, your opinion, and cannot be taken as any proof that Jesus lived. That's if you believe the account of their deaths in the first place.

And lastly, I posted those links as discussions on the subject, not as proof that Jesus didn't ever exist. I don't have proof that he didn't exist, any more than you have proof that he did!

 

[symyjym]

Actually, no. You're wrong on more than 1 point here.

Firstly, only the Abrahamic traditions were monotheistic. Most of the word's inhabitants were still followers of 'Gods', not just one.

Secondly, your assertion that "12 people wouldn’t make up a story of a close friend who never existed if they were going to meet a tortured end" is, again, your opinion, and cannot be taken as any proof that Jesus lived. That's if you believe the account of their deaths in the first place.

And lastly, I posted those links as discussions on the subject, not as proof that Jesus didn't ever exist. I don't have proof that he didn't exist, any more than you have proof that he did!

A God or God's doesn't really matter, you understood my point.

There is plently of evidence to say that he probably existed, to the point there is no point in denying it.

 

[thejackal]

A God or God's doesn't really matter, you understood my point.

There is plently of evidence to say that he probably existed, to the point there is no point in denying it.

Yeah I take your point there. It's also true that on the balance of probability, he may have existed.

That said, I can see more than just 1 'point in denying it': 1 point for every religious nut that is certain that he did!

In the absence of any real proof, I believe it's my moral duty to be skeptical of claims that he definitely existed.