Saturday - Not good enough

[byf]

Put it this way byf, imagine someone had started a thread after the Crewe game stating we will now get to the play offs under Wilkin's and that MM would never have achieved that. Then you give a reasoned argument against why you think that is not true only to have this person constantly go on about how Wilkins is the greatest thing since sliced bread and how McGhee is shit.

Would you think that person was capable of debating the issue and that they didn't have an anti MM agenda?

But Les thats the point. People do come on here doing the same....about wilkins......the told you so crew...but its a split thing isnt it....people who wanted mcghee to stay are bitter and people who wanted him to go seem to back wikins to the hilt just simply because its not mcghee in charge anymore.

I am not denying I do have an MM agenda.., I still to this very day feel very bitter about the whole situation and brighton fans shcoked me over the whole thing.

I feel I have given a reasoned argument of why wilkins has under acheived since he has been in charge irrelevant of that. All I want is the club to succeed...who is charge of that means nothing to me anymore...I wouldnt care whether it was peter taylor again...aslong as we play good football thats value for money...i like many would surely be happy.

 

[byf]

No, that was commerce.

Did he really shoout 'I'm going nowhere'? Jeez, what a nut, what a weird thing to say. Something mental like 'yaaay, cooooome on, you FUUUUCKERS!' while punching the air, eating the pitch and humping the goalpost in a frenzied sexual assault-type way might make believe that that it was passion...

He was kissing the badge and ran over giving it some...I will never forget it.

 

[The Large One]

He was kissing the badge and ran over giving it some...I will never forget it.

Kissing the badge - eugh!

Kissing the badge is what Roy Keane did in his last game for Nottingham Forest - know what I mean?

 

[byf]

Kissing the badge - eugh!

Kissing the badge is what Roy Keane did in his last game for Nottingham Forest - know what I mean?

Adams had more passion in his right eyebrow than Wilkins has in his whole body!

We need a manager who can install confidence into these players, get the best out of them....wilkins hasnt and still isnt doing that.

 

[Les Biehn]

But Les thats the point. People do come on here doing the same....about wilkins......the told you so crew...but its a split thing isnt it....people who wanted mcghee to stay are bitter and people who wanted him to go seem to back wikins to the hilt just simply because its not mcghee in charge anymore.

2 wrongs don't make a right though. Saying that other people say the opposite to me so that makes my agenda driven, badly reasoned view point ok is not a great argument.

I am not denying I do have an MM agenda.., I still to this very day feel very bitter about the whole situation and brighton fans shcoked me over the whole thing.

I dont have an agenda,

I feel I have given a reasoned argument of why wilkins has under acheived since he has been in charge irrelevant of that. All I want is the club to succeed...who is charge of that means nothing to me anymore...I wouldnt care whether it was peter taylor again...aslong as we play good football thats value for money...i like many would surely be happy.

The trouble is your argument isn't reasoned, you only focus on negatives, you show no balance in your opinions and you give no real insight into tactics, players or coaching other than saying they are poor and things will only get worse. You also state the last bit as if it were fact which is rather disingenous.

 

[The Large One]

Adams had more passion in his right eyebrow than Wilkins has in his whole body!

We need a manager who can install confidence into these players, get the best out of them....wilkins hasnt and still isnt doing that.

Ah, so which players are telling you that all of the above is true?

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

Adams had more passion in his right eyebrow than Wilkins has in his whole body!

For Leicester?

 

[Scotty Mac]

wilkins is building his own squad now - he has had more money to spend than anyone else in recent years, and if he is going to have a clear out in the summer then for the start of next season it will be 100% his team - although i think it pretty much is now anyway

with the financial backing he has been given, next year will be the real test for him. if we serve up the same sort of rubbish that we have in recent weeks, then it may be time to look at another man to come in and take us into falmer playing football that will befit the surroundings

 

[Seagull73]

It's strange, I speak as an outsider this season because I am one of those who has 'voted with their feet'. Having been a season ticket holder since we came back to Withdean (and at the Goldstone), I simply couldn't bear to watch what was being served up last year - and under McGhee.

You 'can't believe the way McGhee was treated' crowd. Have you really REALLY forgotten who bloody dreadful the football was under McGhee? REALLY? What was so great that it was so bloody wrong for him to go because I tell you, I was dreading matchdays towards the end. I was in favour for McGhee to go, but what I wasn't expecting was the appointment of Wilkins.

I agree that sacking McGhee to appoint Wilkins has, support and trust wise, turned out to be one of the worst decisions of Dick Knights reign (I stress ONE of the worst, there are worse). Crowds have plummeted, the football's got worse, and although there may be a few performances this season that have been marginally better, we're still not seeing the consistency of a team that was, let's not forget, was supposed to mature last season and didn't. And before anybody picks me up on that point about timing of maturity, a lot of these young lads had a season in the Championship, and they still haven't proved to be good enough.

I personally don't think this club will push for promotion out of this league with Wilkins in charge. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing not to get promoted at the moment, but in order to get the crowds in, we need excitement and a promotion push, and that simply ain't happening.

We finished 18th last year - and our home form is by no means a guarentee of 15 points out of 15, in fact our form suggests that almost certainly unlikely. 14th is where we are now, and I'm pretty sure that's where we will be at the end of the season, and probably next season too.

 

[byf]

2 wrongs don't make a right though. Saying that other people say the opposite to me so that makes my agenda driven, badly reasoned view point ok is not a great argument.







The trouble is your argument isn't reasoned, you only focus on negatives, you show no balance in your opinions and you give no real insight into tactics, players or coaching other than saying they are poor and things will only get worse. You also state the last bit as if it were fact which is rather disingenous.

Les, Last season under wilkins was poor. This season under wilkins overall has been poor,inconsistant and not very nice to watch. If it was good to watch people would go to withdean.

He has had long enough in my opinion......you cabn copy and paste all you want, you can also stand by wilkins as long as you want. I personally have had enough of him.

 

[Knotty]

It's strange, I speak as an outsider this season because I am one of those who has 'voted with their feet'. Having been a season ticket holder since we came back to Withdean (and at the Goldstone), I simply couldn't bear to watch what was being served up last year - and under McGhee.

You 'can't believe the way McGhee was treated' crowd. Have you really REALLY forgotten who bloody dreadful the football was under McGhee? REALLY? What was so great that it was so bloody wrong for him to go because I tell you, I was dreading matchdays towards the end. I was in favour for McGhee to go, but what I wasn't expecting was the appointment of Wilkins.

I agree that sacking McGhee to appoint Wilkins has, support and trust wise, turned out to be one of the worst decisions of Dick Knights reign (I stress ONE of the worst, there are worse). Crowds have plummeted, the football's got worse, and although there may be a few performances this season that have been marginally better, we're still not seeing the consistency of a team that was, let's not forget, was supposed to mature last season and didn't. And before anybody picks me up on that point about timing of maturity, a lot of these young lads had a season in the Championship, and they still haven't proved to be good enough.

I personally don't think this club will push for promotion out of this league with Wilkins in charge. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing not to get promoted at the moment, but in order to get the crowds in, we need excitement and a promotion push, and that simply ain't happening.

We finished 18th last year - and our home form is by no means a guarentee of 15 points out of 15, in fact our form suggests that almost certainly unlikely. 14th is where we are now, and I'm pretty sure that's where we will be at the end of the season, and probably next season too.

Do you think a new manager would give us that promotion push, or do you think we need that AND better players/

 

[BigGully]

wilkins is building his own squad now - he has had more money to spend than anyone else in recent years, and if he is going to have a clear out in the summer then for the start of next season it will be 100% his team - although i think it pretty much is now anyway

with the financial backing he has been given, next year will be the real test for him. if we serve up the same sort of rubbish that we have in recent weeks, then it may be time to look at another man to come in and take us into falmer playing football that will befit the surroundings

That just isnt true ......

Wilkins asked for financial backing on securing the immediate futures of Hammond, Savage and O'Callaghan and he just didnt get it from DK. ( forget the subsequant politics of it all ).

The financial implications of securing those players was not that significant, especially with the signing of Murray, so it could be argued that Wilkins has had to start again since building the original team last year including additions Whing, Martot, O'Callaghan, Savage and Richards with the players he already had.

 

[Seagull73]

Do you think a new manager would give us that promotion push, or do you think we need that AND better players/

Good question. I haven't seen us play this year so it's difficult judgement - but nobody, even on here, seems to be really having a go at the indivdual players, with the odd exception, just how it is all coming together as a team.

Unquestionably, we would need better players and a new manager to look at top 2, but whether or not that is necessary to mount a play-off push is another matter. I'm inclined to think that a whole team-full of new faces is not necessary from what I hear and read.

 

[Les Biehn]

Les, Last season under wilkins was poor. This season under wilkins overall has been poor,inconsistant and not very nice to watch. If it was good to watch people would go to withdean.

He has had long enough in my opinion......you cabn copy and paste all you want, you can also stand by wilkins as long as you want. I personally have had enough of him.

Not all of it has been poor and it may need a little more time to come together.

byf, why can't you articulate your opinions? Why when people pull you up do you always fall back on 'it's my opinion' and getting defensive with comments like the cut and paste one?

You have an opinion, I have a different one. I am trying to debate with you but you seem unwillling or unable to clarify your opinion with anything other than rhetoric.

 

[Les Biehn]

You also keep mentioning attendances.

Well you have to remember we are spending another year in Lge 1 which is gonna affect it and the prices are stupid. It's the main thing holding me back from going to as many games as I want.

I do think the football hasn't been great and has contributed to the poor attendence but you need to consider other factors before drawing conclusions.

 

[ack]

As I have said during the transfer window,we lack a decent defence.
Butters is a legend but without enough pace now and can be turned too easy,the rest are young and will make mistakes,and slagging them off on here wont help if they read it.
At the end of the day Wilkins is putting out a team we all would pick most of the time,but errors have turned draws or wins into defeats.
How many people would be calling for his head if those bad performances had been draws or wins??

 

[byf]

Its hard to look beyond the here and now. If we are to judge managers on results and performances overall Wilkins has not done great and surely thats we can go on. People who scream he has potential and will come good and give him time......what has he shown other than being an inconsistant manager who doesnt excite the fans enough to go and watch them.

We are losing lots and lots of money due to the fact we are playing second rate football. Can the club afford to be having someone in charge who will on factual evidence get us mid table finishes every season and no sign that will change.

This club is not a charity case for dean wilkins, he is no different to any other manager we have had and I dont understand why he deserves more time than any other

 

[byf]

Not all of it has been poor and it may need a little more time to come together.

byf, why can't you articulate your opinions? Why when people pull you up do you always fall back on 'it's my opinion' and getting defensive with comments like the cut and paste one?

You have an opinion, I have a different one. I am trying to debate with you but you seem unwillling or unable to clarify your opinion with anything other than rhetoric.

Les, What exactly do you want me to answer?

 

[Scotty Mac]

That just isnt true ......

Wilkins asked for financial backing on securing the immediate futures of Hammond, Savage and O'Callaghan and he just didnt get it from DK. ( forget the subsequant politics of it all ).

The financial implications of securing those players was not that significant, especially with the signing of Murray, so it could be argued that Wilkins has had to start again since building the original team last year including additions Whing, Martot, O'Callaghan, Savage and Richards with the players he already had.

i agree with the fact that he didnt get the financial backing to keep those players - and that is something that at this moment in time looks like it is going to ruin our season

what he has had though is financial backing to go out there and replace them - whichever way you look at it, he has spent a LOT of money by our clubs standards. far more than mcghee, coppell and possibly adams spent. and those managers also had their best players sold from under them, yet kept getting results

we cannot afford to chuck money at players for them to not help the club progress. at this moment in time, we dont seem to be progressing anywhere from where mcghee left us. the start of next season will effectively be his third in the job, and with the amount of players out of contract he has the chance to have a real clear out. with the time he has had and the money he has spent, i would expect us to be top 6 next year, and if we are in a similar position to where we are now at christmas then it might be time to look for a new man

 

[Knotty]

Good question. I haven't seen us play this year so it's difficult judgement - but nobody, even on here, seems to be really having a go at the indivdual players, with the odd exception, just how it is all coming together as a team.

Unquestionably, we would need better players and a new manager to look at top 2, but whether or not that is necessary to mount a play-off push is another matter. I'm inclined to think that a whole team-full of new faces is not necessary from what I hear and read.

Maybe the players we have are of a certain standard that no manager could get them playing better as a team. I believe they are doing their best and that means that there are going to be mistakes every game because that best is only of League 1 mid-table standard.

We are never going to know if another manager could do better with those players unless we change the manager. So we make that change and there is no improvement...what then? Do we change the manager every year until we find the miracle-worker?

I did not expect any better than mid-table this season and that view was based on the players, not the manager. We now have two or three new players who might make the difference. Who knows? I simply don't believe that changing the manager now would make the slightest difference and it could make things worse.