[Albion] Safe Standing at the AMEX

[CaptainDaveUK]

Do rail seats fit more people into the stand? If so this would create a better atmosphere. Otherwise I can’t quite see the benefit of changing. UTA.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Do rail seats fit more people into the stand? If so this would create a better atmosphere. Otherwise I can’t quite see the benefit of changing. UTA.

According to this it can increase capacity:

https://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

 

[Acker79]

Do rail seats fit more people into the stand? If so this would create a better atmosphere. Otherwise I can’t quite see the benefit of changing. UTA.

According to this it can increase capacity:

https://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

I don't know if it's still the case, but I believe the argument from the club in the past is that it may increase the number of seats, but it won't necessarily increase capacity (i.e. the number of tickets the club is allowed to sell), because capacity is limited by a licence that is determined by more than just how many seats there are - notably how quickly can the stand be emptied in an emergency (logicially it would take longer for 6000 people to evacuate a stand than it would 5000 people), how many people can enter over the course of an hour prior. There are then considerations for toilets and such (though I'm not sure how big an impact that has on the licence, and how much that is more about supporter experience).

 

[Superphil]

According to this it can increase capacity:

https://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

I don't know if it's still the case, but I believe the argument from the club in the past is that it may increase the number of seats, but it won't necessarily increase capacity (i.e. the number of tickets the club is allowed to sell), because capacity is limited by a licence that is determined by more than just how many seats there are - notably how quickly can the stand be emptied in an emergency (logicially it would take longer for 6000 people to evacuate a stand than it would 5000 people), how many people can enter over the course of an hour prior. There are then considerations for toilets and such (though I'm not sure how big an impact that has on the licence, and how much that is more about supporter experience).

Borussia Dortmund's ground goes from 66000 capacity for all seating to 81000 when the seats are converted to standing. For some reason BHA are vehemently against doing this, and have repeatedly said it would/could not increase capacity. Strange when you think they've just bunched seats up and squeezed seats into any nook and cranny they can find to increase capacity this season.

 

[spoonie]

Borussia Dortmund's ground goes from 66000 capacity for all seating to 81000 when the seats are converted to standing. For some reason BHA are vehemently against doing this, and have repeatedly said it would/could not increase capacity. Strange when you think they've just bunched seats up and squeezed seats into any nook and cranny they can find to increase capacity this season.

Borussia Dortmund is terracing rather than 'safe standing'

 

[Superphil]

Borussia Dortmund is terracing rather than 'safe standing'

Ah, gotcha, the terracing gets converted to seating for European and International matches. That said, the reports around safe standing options still suggest that more people can use the space if it's set as safe standing.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Do rail seats fit more people into the stand? If so this would create a better atmosphere. Otherwise I can’t quite see the benefit of changing. UTA.

I'm pretty sure that even if there's the same number of people, a standing crowd will make more noise than a seated one because they're more involved, energetic, excited etc.

There's various interesting reasons for that to do with psychology and adrenaline and that sort of thing that I don't particularly understand or care about enough to try and understand.

 

[drew]

Um, perhaps the safe element?

You'd think they would start with the back of the North, create a culture for it and slowly integrate it throughout the stand.

Obviously it is early days because the legislation hasn't been passed yet. But noticeable that an increasing amount of clubs are getting involved early. It is surprising that a club like ours which likes to be perceived as forward thinking, is seemingly not here.

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I'm guessing the club have ignored the large number of accidents in the North Stand from people falling over the seats then!!!!

 

[drew]

I'm pretty sure that even if there's the same number of people, a standing crowd will make more noise than a seated one because they're more involved, energetic, excited etc.

There's various interesting reasons for that to do with psychology and adrenaline and that sort of thing that I don't particularly understand or care about enough to try and understand.

I take it you're not a regular at the Amex. A very large proportion of the North Stand stand already so I don't see how you can use that as an argument for increasing the atmosphere.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I don't know if it's still the case, but I believe the argument from the club in the past is that it may increase the number of seats, but it won't necessarily increase capacity (i.e. the number of tickets the club is allowed to sell), because capacity is limited by a licence that is determined by more than just how many seats there are - notably how quickly can the stand be emptied in an emergency (logicially it would take longer for 6000 people to evacuate a stand than it would 5000 people), how many people can enter over the course of an hour prior. There are then considerations for toilets and such (though I'm not sure how big an impact that has on the licence, and how much that is more about supporter experience).

It's odd though when you consider how open the stands/concourses are compared to Old Trafford/Elland Rd etc, especially OT where they cram 74000 into a 50000 safe stadium.

 

[peterward]

As a north stander. I would love safe standing. end of.

The old away end at London Road, Peterborough, in fact everywhere you can still stand is just so much more enjoyable as an experience than sitting.

Hillsborough was a tagedy, all seater stadiums the right response at that time based on what stadiums were then, but the world and stadiums have changed, safe standing is exactly that, in fact I'd argue there's less chance of being injured in an old fashioned surge with barriers in each row, than there would be with people standing in seats.

I for one hope it happens at the Amex

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

I take it you're not a regular at the Amex. A very large proportion of the North Stand stand already so I don't see how you can use that as an argument for increasing the atmosphere.

I know plenty of people stand, but in my experience it's not the same as you get in an away end (where near enough everybody stands throughout). It's also not the same as some stands at other grounds like the Kop at Anfield, where the seats are so close together that it's basically impossible for anybody with legs to sit down (which is obviously the main driver for this at a lot of grounds, because that's a major safety issue).

 

[Lethargic]

Paul Barber has repeated several times on the discussions around safe standing that it would be the same capacity just swapping your current seat for a rail seat there would be no additional.

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[GT49er]

I just get the impression that there is no will in the club for this at all. No financial benefit t the club, and doesn't conform to the 'welcome customers to the matchday experience' ethos.

 

[chaileyjem]

Um, perhaps the safe element?

You'd think they would start with the back of the North, create a culture for it and slowly integrate it throughout the stand.

Obviously it is early days because the legislation hasn't been passed yet. But noticeable that an increasing amount of clubs are getting involved early. It is surprising that a club like ours which likes to be perceived as forward thinking, is seemingly not here.

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The club engaged with fans, did surveys, and reviewed options over 5 years ago. There actually was mixed support for the idea at the time
They produced this video then

https://youtu.be/5fi2prPbldA

And ran a forum

https://youtu.be/QdE__WZmF9U

Here’s BBC report
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37574843

 

[Cotton Socks]

I think there's a big difference between turning the North Stand into safe standing & the rest of the stadium. As the Getafe game was so quiet it was easy to see where the noise comes from and that is the back of the North Stand, you can't actually normally see that when it's full, as the eye perspective is different. From my viewpoint N1C looked like the place to be if you want something akin to the 'old days'. It will be the 1st place I check for tickets in future. No offence to the East side of the North Stand but I was on the West side and they sounded louder! Back of the North stand would be the ideal place to make safe standing.

 

[faoileán]

I think there's a big difference between turning the North Stand into safe standing & the rest of the stadium. As the Getafe game was so quiet it was easy to see where the noise comes from and that is the back of the North Stand, you can't actually normally see that when it's full, as the eye perspective is different. From my viewpoint N1C looked like the place to be if you want something akin to the 'old days'. It will be the 1st place I check for tickets in future. No offence to the East side of the North Stand but I was on the West side and they sounded louder! Back of the North stand would be the ideal place to make safe standing.

Yeah but the only problem is that there is only about 50 of them. I've bought an occasional ticket in that area and there are too many grans and grandads who tut abut people standing. I'm still baffled why 50% of the NS bought season tickets there; they clearly have no intention of standing-up and singing...ever

 

[Brighton Rocker]

I stand at the back of the North Stand and have done so since we moved to the Amex.
I think most fans in the North Stand who want to stand can now do so without hassle from stewards in any case.
I am not aware of any evidence that standing in front of seats is unsafe but, obviously having a rail to lean on would be safer.
I have campaigned for the return of standing for many years despite having spent a large part of my career building all seater stadia!
Hillsborough was a tragedy however, the Taylor Report was written in the belief that it was the result of hooliganism not mismanagement as we now know.
It’s great that other clubs are responding to the wishes of their supporters.
The atmosphere can be improved by everyone in the North Stand singing the same songs at the same time; wining more games; crap referees (tick); scrap VAR or at least make decisions quickly.

 

[Brighton Rocker]

Yeah but the only problem is that there is only about 50 of them. I've bought an occasional ticket in that area and there are too many grans and grandads who tut abut people standing. I'm still baffled why 50% of the NS bought season tickets there; they clearly have no intention of standing-up and singing...ever

You are so right. There are far too many ‘supporters’ in the North Stand who don’t sing but want to sit and enjoy the atmosphere created by others. No doubt these people would make a hell of a noise if they were asked to move so that a safe standing area could be created.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Yeah but the only problem is that there is only about 50 of them. I've bought an occasional ticket in that area and there are too many grans and grandads who tut abut people standing. I'm still baffled why 50% of the NS bought season tickets there; they clearly have no intention of standing-up and singing...ever

I went in there for a cup game and assumed that the 'no-one else is singing except for the people at the back' was because it was a cup game!! We were singing along but felt like we were one of the few further forward!