[Albion] Safe Standing at the AMEX

[Diablo]

Then don't move to the safe standing section, you absolute ****wit..

Rather hard to move to safe standing section.....as there isn`t one, you absolute ****wit.

 

[papajaff]

Then don't move to the safe standing section, you absolute ****wit. If you have nothing intelligent to contribute then don't bother next time.

****ing stroll on. You having a bad day?

 

[Aveacarlin']

On a purely selfish level, it's a yes from me.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Mackenzie]

I know that (if) it were to happen then the suggestion was a section of the north stand. It would be good if it was the South East curve so that it is in a corner, loud and right near the away fans. Burnley and Huddersfield have been clever to put their noisy support next to the away fans to drown them out.

The “dead zone” as I like to call it.

The area that non-season ticket holders only buy if there is NO alternative. It would be a great place to have safe standing because currently it is the worst place in the entire stadium for any sort of fan involved. No one sings.

 

[Silverhatch]

Big section of the South Stand should be safe standing (currently very un-Safe standing) because no away fans sit down anyway. If away fans currently unsafely stand then the home fans should have the right to safe stand. Big central section of the North Stand anyone?

 

[Nixonator]

I'd move to wherever it is installed +3.

 

[Silverhatch]

I believe his objection is on cost grounds rather than anything fundamental.

We are a new ground with top-of-the-range seats installed. Removing and replacing these anytime soon would represent a significant financial cost to the club for no additional benefit.

In 10 years time (or whenever the club expects to have to replace the seats) then I think they will give it real consideration but unless everyone wanting to move to an all-standing section (myself included) wants to cough up, say, a grand each for the modifications, then it just isn't going to happen at the Amex.

Alternatively, if we ever got permission to expand the ground and add a new level to the North (or however it could be done), then it could happen.

We (Currently) generate in TV revenue in one year what it cost to build the entire stadium. The cost issue is a concern but not the main concern. Behind closed doors the conversations will be about atmosphere/environment/safety/crowd culture and where to site seats and how you do that without pissing off existing customers/fans. And what to do with away fans where everyone routinely UN-Safely stands (this includes Senior citizens and kids).

 

[AWAYDAY]

It seems there are sensible points on both sides.

Cost is a factor to some degree and there is the problems spelled out about the governments atttitude to the issue. However there does seem to be a lot of interest (I notice a twitter poll today got 500+ positive responses from Albion fans)

I’m not sure what fans/the clubs objections to a new discussion on the subject would be if Parliament get behind the idea. Surely clubs should contribute to the debate rather than sit on their hands..

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sadly, not even on the agenda as far as the FSF is concerned. They have it somewhere bumping along the pipeline much further back, but safe standing is the priority right now, and all the efforts are being put into that basket.

After that, assuming safe standing is brought in, I suspect drinking in sight of the pitch will go flying up the agenda.

Wasn't drinking within sight of the pitch banned within the same legislation that brought us all seater stadia ? If so it would seem sensible to attempt to change the legislation all in one go than via piecemeal campaigns. That said, my gut feeling is that safe standing will be kicked into the long grass ..... again.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

The Government's stance is that they see no reason to change the law. The Football Offences Act was drafted in the wake of the Hillsborough disaster - indeed, despite the Hillsborough disaster. The eventual outcome of the Hillsborough Inquiry 27 years later has meant that - in law at least - the original arguments against standing at matches are now largely redundant.

This argument must now be won on a Health & Safety consideration.

The SGSA, the body advising the government on this and other stadium issues, has a pre-determined agenda which not only operates on an evidence-free basis, it wishes to go further and insist all clubs get all supporters to sit down - all of the time. This, as every safety officer up and down the country tells them, is impractical, unsafe and largely impossible. But still the SGSA persevere.

The Government wants evidence to see the safe-standing is, well... safe. This can only be obtained by either fans standing at matches (the SoS at DCMS has said that they can't), or a club trial safe standing (WBA had their application turned down for reasons which may never be made clear). In short, every club in the country has to break the law (or rather, break the licensing terms of operation) in order to provide the evidence.

Either way, the Government needs to remove its inherent prejudices, and at least allow safe-standing trials - something the PL, FL, almost all clubs, fans and safety officers are in favour of (and clearly much higher than the '5%' the DCMS said was the interest in safe standing). At the moment, Tracey Crouch doesn't want to know.

At least this debate will show in public - and be placed on Hansard - the arguments for safe-standing. At least Ms Crouch won't be able to plead ignorance in the same way some of her colleagues have been lately.

This for me is the crux of the matter. Fans standing in seating areas puts clubs in breach of H&S legislation. If it was a building site, it would be shut down. Away fans (6,000+BHA fans at Fulham) all standing is a good example. Every fan standing with a barrier (back of the seat in front) at knee height is just about the unsafest way to watch a football match, far worse than terracing. For examples of how SS is safe the Gov only need to pop up to Celtic or any of the Euro cubs who have had this in place for a few years now with no safety issues. For examples of how the current situation of standing in seating areas is unsafe, they only have to pop to any PL/Championship game and see for themselves.

 

[Dave the OAP]

The only thing that concerns me about this, is if there is a specific area that will be deemed safe standing, those of us in the NS by the back who do stand, as agreed by mr perry, will be forced to sit or move to wherever that will be.

It may well be the NS, but it may only ge the corners.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I’m glad that the argument for and against are mainly cost based and fan/club interest based. At least at a fan level we know it has nothing to do with safety. However in parliament, im sure their misunderstanding of the whole situation will mean the discussion goes back 30 years and discusses safety and hooligans etc.
The fact that in reality, the only objections are based on personal preference and costs, verses pro’s of Improved atmosphere and personal preferences, means that there is not a legitimate reason to keep the current law. Safe Standing and eventually beer in view of the pitch will eventually come in.

 

[The Large One]

Wasn't drinking within sight of the pitch banned within the same legislation that brought us all seater stadia ? If so it would seem sensible to attempt to change the legislation all in one go than via piecemeal campaigns. That said, my gut feeling is that safe standing will be kicked into the long grass ..... again.

It was.

But it's more prudent to fight the battles which can be won. Safe standing is probably the easier of the two. There is a link between beer and misbehaviour; there is little or none between standing and misbehaviour. For the former, it would need careful consideration; for the latter we've already have that careful consideration mapped out as we've been doing it all the while we've been supposed to sit down - yet the government doesn't want to know.

It's like the default setting is we're being treated like naughty boys and girls until such time as we can be proved that we can behave ourselves. This is the level of condescension we have reached. The government knows its arguments have been weakened (or rather - the fans' arguments have been strengthened) since the Hillsborough Inquest finally reached its verdicts, and is now forced to play its oxymoronic trump card of 'you can't stand until you prove you can stand safely'.

And don't get me wrong - successive governments since 1991 have turned their back on this. The fact that the likes of Jack Straw and Alan Johnson ignored the pleas of the Liverpool families (the entire justification for the law in the first place) is just as appalling.

 

[The Large One]

This for me is the crux of the matter. Fans standing in seating areas puts clubs in breach of H&S legislation. If it was a building site, it would be shut down. Away fans (6,000+BHA fans at Fulham) all standing is a good example. Every fan standing with a barrier (back of the seat in front) at knee height is just about the unsafest way to watch a football match, far worse than terracing. For examples of how SS is safe the Gov only need to pop up to Celtic or any of the Euro cubs who have had this in place for a few years now with no safety issues. For examples of how the current situation of standing in seating areas is unsafe, they only have to pop to any PL/Championship game and see for themselves.

The government - or rather, the SGSA - won't cite Celtic or Dortmund as satisfactory examples of this system working, because they're not in England and the culture is different.

They have yet to provide any evidence to back up this assertion.

 

[AWAYDAY]

The only thing that concerns me about this, is if there is a specific area that will be deemed safe standing, those of us in the NS by the back who do stand, as agreed by mr perry, will be forced to sit or move to wherever that will be.

It may well be the NS, but it may only ge the corners.

I see the concern but safe standing could be the back rows or it might be good to be in one section all together anyway...

 

[Munkfish]

I know that (if) it were to happen then the suggestion was a section of the north stand. It would be good if it was the South East curve so that it is in a corner, loud and right near the away fans. Burnley and Huddersfield have been clever to put their noisy support next to the away fans to drown them out.

West Brom too. West Brom and Hudds kept the away support very quiet. However Burnley we really stepped our game up, one of the better away games this season for atmosphere.

 

[Surrey Phil]

I know there will be reasoned arguments on both sides but personally I think this would be a real step backwards given all that has gone before. You have to stand at all away games, so the only thing I'd change is to ban the tw*** at the front who won't sit down!!!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The only thing that concerns me about this, is if there is a specific area that will be deemed safe standing, those of us in the NS by the back who do stand, as agreed by mr perry, will be forced to sit or move to wherever that will be.

It may well be the NS, but it may only ge the corners.

I agree with safe standing, but I would hope the standing area would be at the back so us oldies can sit near the front without anyone getting in our way.
There should be a choice for fans.

 

[Bob!]

I agree with safe standing, but I would hope the standing area would be at the back so us oldies can sit near the front without anyone getting in our way.
There should be a choice for fans.

Yup.
The simple way (if it were to come in ) would be to ask al NS STH whether they wish to take up the offer of Safe Standing to find out how many seats they need to convert.
Then convert that many seats to standing across the back of the stand.
Move people to seats / standing with their groups as appropriate.

 

[Postman Pat]

Yup.
The simple way (if it were to come in ) would be to ask al NS STH whether they wish to take up the offer of Safe Standing to find out how many seats they need to convert.
Then convert that many seats to standing across the back of the stand.
Move people to seats / standing with their groups as appropriate.

Maybe start with back half of N1 E&F and allow people there to move out, and then extend into D&G after a trial season.