Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No?

[SafeStandingRoadshow]

Absolutely - its a great opportunity for a trial. It would be fantastic if we could join Villa and Posh in the safe standing trial.

I agree that a corner is an ideal place for a safe standing area, e.g. as here, the 'away section' at the Hoffenheim:



... however, no club can do a trial until the government gives permission, so we need as many as MPs as possible to sign EDM 573 (it's like an MPs' petition), which calls on the government to allow just such trials:

Find and e-mail your MP here​

 

[Bladders]

So what you want is basically the best possible seats, right in the middle at the back of the away section, and for everybody else to sit quietly and silently so your son gets a completely unobstructed view of the game? Can you really not see that you're being selfish.

Have you actually asked your son what he likes about football? When my old man starting taking me along, it was the atmosphere, the noise and the vibrancy that i found compelling as much as the football. Things that you seemingly don't want to see at Albion matches with your odd and selfish attitude.

I'm baffled how you came up with this wild assumption based on the post you quoted, gave me a good chuckle though.


Actually the lad has just got in with a few of his mates from football club so I'll put it too them. Hang on.


So, my test subjects were four 9 year olds and there choices were:

Atmosphere
Noise
Good view of the match
Tasty pies

Guess which one came out on top............. then again tasty pies came in second.

Kids, what do they know ey?

 

[pauli cee]

f*** yeah!!!!

 

[The Birdman]

The club should take a look at Munich ground they have standing for League matches

 

[sully]

The club should take a look at Munich ground they have standing for League matches

It'n not just Munich though, is it? Dortmund is surely the most famous example.

 

[SafeStandingRoadshow]

The club should take a look at Munich ground they have standing for League matches

EVERY German ground has standing. Some, as in Munich and Berlin, have normal seats, but allow standing in front of these in the designated standing areas, others have open terraces (and if they play in Europe when the ground has to be all-seater, they bolt temporary seats to the terrace deck), one or two have temporary flip-up seats underneath aluminium terrace steps, which are folded back to reveal the seat for European matches and 9 of the 18 top flights clubs use rail seats (at least in part of their ground). These are:

Werder Bremen
HSV
Hannover 96
VfL Wolfsburg
Borussia Dortmund
Bayer Leverkusen
Hoffenheim
VfB Stuttgart
Nuremberg

So there are plenty of examples for club officials to go and take a look at!

Here, for example, is part of the home end at Hannover (3,000 rail seats, 5,700 standing fans for domestic games):

 

[rowtnorthstand]

Definitely

 

[attila]

Well, I know Caroline and will point her to this thread and make the observation that while SOME of the Albion board are of that strange opinion (though the one who actually oversaw the building of the stadium definitely isn't!) we the fans want to see safe standing happen as evinced by this poll and since she is supposed to represent grass roots opinion she'd be advised to change her stance! And, incidentally, for those who feel a poll of a few hundred people on NSC is not representative, the massive support for the idea of real ale at the Amex in the poll I put on here was a major contributory factor in the club agreeing to try it, and we all know how that poll translated into actual sales in the stadium - I would suggest that the same would happen with safe standing. But, of course, the government has to give the go ahead before trials can take place, and that's the next step.
Roll on Palace. I can't wait.

Do you think it was Mr Hebberd who gave Caroline Lucas the advice in my attached email? I couldn't beleive this line in the email: "They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create." How on earth would safe standing detract from the community experience of the stadium?

Email below:

Ref: CL.JH.C0065.CM.20.11.12

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for email about EDM 573. Having spoken to our local football club, the Albion, I am currently minded not to add my name in support. They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create and they also argue that policing standing areas is a real challenge. I am interested in the points you make about safety though and will go back to the Albion again with that information and seek further advice. Thank you for getting in touch and for letting me know your views.

Best wishes,
Caroline

Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

Tel: 020 7219 7025
Email: caroline.lucas.mp@parliament.uk

If you would like to receive weekly email news bulletins from Caroline Lucas please reply to this message putting 'email bulletin' in the subject line.


-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxx
Sent: 04 November 2012 12:30
To: LUCAS, Caroline
Subject: Letter from your constituent xxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxx
Southover Street
BRIGHTON
xxxxxxxxxx

Phone: xxxxxxxx

Email: xxxxxxxxx

Sunday 4 November 2012

Dear Caroline Lucas MP,

Safe standing at football matches.

Please support safe standing by signing EDM 573 and attending the FSF's safe standing event in Portcullis House (Attlee Suite) on Tuesday 11th December 2012.

The safe standing being proposed are rail seats, you can see a video of how they work here:

Safe standing at rail seats - YouTube

There is now support from football clubs throughout the country with safe standing pilot schemes being supported by the following clubs:
Aston Villa, Sunderland, Bristol City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Hull City and Peterborough United.

There is popular support amongst football fans - nine out of ten supporters back the choice to sit or stand (Football Supporters'
Federation National Survey 2012)
The Football Supporters' Federation - Informing, Supporting, Campaigning.

Choice - everyone benefits as those who wish to stand can do so, while those who prefer to sit no longer have to worry about having their view blocked. Clubs should also have the choice to introduce safe standing areas if they see fit.

Flexibility - UEFA regulations mean European competitions must be played in all-seater stadiums. Safe standing areas can be easily converted to and from seating so a club competing in Europe can go all-seater with minimum fuss.

Pricing - in both England and abroad ticket prices for standing areas are typically lower than in seated areas giving football clubs the opportunity to make stadiums more socially inclusive, while the higher density of supporters creates extra revenue.

Safety - safe standing can be introduced within stringent safety standards laid down in the Government's Green Guide. The Government does not claim that standing at football is inherently unsafe.

If you require further reading please visit the Football Supporters'
Federation's Safe Standing Campaign pages which dispel many of the myths surrounding this issue:
The Football Supporters' Federation - Informing, Supporting, Campaigning

Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

5658242381c7c6eae78c/9fceb360f7d3e9765689
(Signed with an electronic signature in accordance with subsection 7(3) of the Electronic Communications Act 2000.)


[ This message was sent by WriteToThem.com. If you have had any problems receiving this message, please email team@writetothem.com and we'll get back to you. See WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free for more details about the service. We have sent this email to caroline.lucas.mp@parliament.uk; if this address is out of date please email us so that we can update our records. ]

________________________________

UK Parliament Disclaimer:
This e-mail is confidential to the intended recipient. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any unauthorised use, disclosure, or copying is not permitted. This e-mail has been checked for viruses, but no liability is accepted for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.

 

[catfish]

Yes, yes and double yes.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

Well, I know Caroline and will point her to this thread and make the observation that while SOME of the Albion board are of that strange opinion (though the one who actually oversaw the building of the stadium definitely isn't!) we the fans want to see safe standing happen as evinced by this poll and since she is supposed to represent grass roots opinion she'd be advised to change her stance! And, incidentally, for those who feel a poll of a few hundred people on NSC is not representative, the massive support for the idea of real ale at the Amex in the poll I put on here was a major contributory factor in the club agreeing to try it, and we all know how that poll translated into actual sales in the stadium - I would suggest that the same would happen with safe standing. But, of course, the government has to give the go ahead before trials can take place, and that's the next step.
Roll on Palace. I can't wait.

Attila - I think you've just summed up why you're an Albion legend.

 

[Djmiles]

The poll speaks for itself.

 

[blue and white stripes45]

The reason we have all seaters is because people were getting killed at the football. So safe standing is a big yes from me.

They were fenced in and the clubs dis not control crowd numbers back then, that is why people were killed it was not because they were standing up

 

[Camicus]

They were fenced in and the clubs dis not control crowd numbers back then, that is why people were killed it was not because they were standing up

Well it was no surge control if they had been sitting it wouldnt have happened revise history as much as you want but most of us remember the 80s

 

[SafeStandingRoadshow]

Well it was no surge control if they had been sitting it wouldnt have happened revise history as much as you want but most of us remember the 80s

I would respectfully refer you to the Ellis Park Stadium disaster of 2001 (i.e. 3 years after Hillsborough). 43 fans died. The cause, as recorded by the subsequent judge-led enquiry, was poor crowd management at the point of entry, as at Hillsborough. The stadium was and is a FIFA 4-star all-seater stadium.

Spectators at mass events are in danger if those responsible for managing them and for ensuring that the facilities adhere to the prevailing safety regulations fail in their duty. That happened in Sheffield, it happened in Bradford and it happened in Johannesburg. The spectators' choice of standing or seated accommodation had nothing to do with them losing their lives.

Looking at the present day, however, it is clear that most if not all clubs are currently tolerating standing in areas not designed for the purpose, i.e. behind shin-high seat backs, where it is easy for a celebrating fan to fall forward into the row in front. Standing behind a rail seat would clearly be a lot safer. Indeed, based on research done for Trafford Borough Council some years ago into the dangers to fans in football grandstands, it can be argued that standing to watch a football game behind a rail seat is safer than sitting in a normal seat and jumping up and down when your team scores.

Given that standing behind rail seats in a properly managed area, i.e. with the same strict capacity control as in a seated area, is patently safe and given that many fans would like to stand and given that growing numbers of clubs would like to see this idea tried out and given that offering choice to spectators is the fair thing to do, why would anyone be against a couple of small-scale trials being run?

If we're wrong and it doesn't work well in this country, the idea will be scrapped. If we're right, the trials go well, the fans in those areas enjoy themselves, the pilot clubs and safety officials are all happy, then all clubs will be given the freedom to decide for themselves whether or not they wish to offer such areas to their fans. What's to object to in that process?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Any danger in standing areas, 'safe' or otherwise, only came from the big steel fences at the front that gave the people standing there no means of escape in the EXTREMELY rare event of them needing to get out of there. Ridiculous over-nannying to fret about standing. Terracing was never dangerous in the first place.

 

[Janbha]

if the rails are padded yes , dont want that tacky bare metal type , we are brighton we have a posh identity to uphold

 

[Ninja Elephant]

It's a deffinite yes for me as well, we don't need nor want the conflict in the North Stand and it's about time some of the football traditions were honoured, and safe standing would be the perfect compromise. This needs to happen, it makes commercial sense as much as anything else.

 

[Billy the Fish]

29 ridiculously selfish people so far who need to take a long hard look at themselves

 

[raymondbriggs]

The fire at Bradford killed and maimed so many people IN A SEATING AREA of an ancient stand whilst those standing in the terrace area of the same stand escaped onto the pitch.They died and were hurt for the same reason that people died at Hillsborough.
Fans in those days were treated with total disregard for their safety by the powers that controlled us.Bradford fans died because an ancient fire trap of a stand caught fire and fans trying to escape were forced by a barrier segregating the two halves of the stand to head for the back of the stand rather than to the pitch.
On getting to the back of the stand they found that the exit gates had been chained and padlocked shut with no stewards around to let them out.
They died because,just like at sheffield,those paid to protect them,from the Police to the criminally negligent F.A(how the f*** have they got away with it?)had other agendas on the day.
Seating did not make it safe at Bradford but we got lucky.We had a stand just as much of a fire trap as Bradford. The old South stand at the Goldstone was just the same only smaller,Bradfords ran the length of the pitch our South Stand only behind the goal line.Both went up for the same reason,a discarded fag or match igniting years of rubbish under wooden bench seats. We got lucky Bradfords went up straight away( see Youtube for the video,search Bradford fire for the frightening 5 mins it took to destroy a stand and hundreds of lives) our South Stand took a bit longer to ignite and burnt down overnight after a (old )Div 1 game against Middlesboro.

Seating saved no one at Bradford,it killed them,it could have killed a few of our own that Middlesboro day. Standing is safe if the ground is safe.Vote yes.

 

[AndyJD1611]

I like the idea of standing, but not changing the seats to ones similar to the above. Just keep everything as it is, but allow people to stand. I'm sure lots of us on here have been to sold out away days where everyone stands and the stewards have no problems. Has anyone died, suddenly become ill, lost a limb, forgotten their own name or killed someone during these games? No.
Keep everything as it is, but allow people to stand up. Simple.