Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No?

[Commander]

This is just another example of a pointless exercise, it will not happen at the Amex. One of the main points why the ground has been so well received is the quality of all the seats (padded) and the generous leg room, compared to plastic seating elsewhere, and for certian grounds if you are only 5'5" the leg room is extremely cramped.

The club are not going to go backwards and replace these seats with plastic lockable versions with surge bars in fromt of each seat.

You may dream and want this change but it is not going to happen at the Amex.

I'm sorry but that is bollocks. Padded seats and extra leg room is not the reason why the Amex has been so successful. Those are just nice little extras.

If safe standing can work anywhere in the top two divisions in England, then it will work at the Amex. And as TMLS says, if the club thought that it would bring more profits, and they were allowed to do it, then they would do it. Simple as that.

 

[Bladders]

Absolute nonsense. How old is your lad? Plenty of kids go to away games, I very much doubt they would if they couldn't see a thing.

Nah, I know plenty of people who've taken their young ones to away matches ( not just Albion fans but Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal etc and they have also said it's a waste of time and wont bother again till they're a bit older and taller or people actually start sitting like they're supposed to.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

My email to Derek Chapman -
Derek,
The bandwagon is rolling. I know where you stand (ha!)
We’ve got the beer, we’ve got the pies, we need the terrace.
Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No? - Page 6

His reply:

Good luck,
I did suggest that it would be a good idea not to put the seats into the North East and North West corners, which went down like a lead balloon!
Derek

So, as you can see, we have support in the most important place - but opposition as well, and I know who it's from, because I already had big arguments about it with him in the PA box at Withdean, eh, Mr. Hebberd

The first step must surely happen at a national level - to get the government and the FA onside in principle. Then the huge weight of popular support for safe standing will descend on the individual clubs, who will have to decide whether to do what the fans want or dig their heels in and risk laienating their core support.
Great this is happening on here, anyway......

In other news, way down the football pyramid far further than they should be after 2 enforced relegations due to financial mismanagement, the fans of the utterly Archered Northwich Victoria FC (currently playing home games at Stafford, ground sold to a chemical company, run by a Mancunian who reminds me of a composite of Archer and Bellotti with a bit of amateur boxer thrown in) had a meeting last night where they voted to start their own club and from a list of 4 potential names call it 1874 Northwich. Due to MIL's illness my wife and I are in Northwich (coming back today for Palace) and I went to the meeting. Horrible memories of the dark days and thank god we never had to go down that route. Best of luck to them, starting again at level 6.

Do you think it was Mr Hebberd who gave Caroline Lucas the advice in my attached email? I couldn't beleive this line in the email: "They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create." How on earth would safe standing detract from the community experience of the stadium?

Email below:

Ref: CL.JH.C0065.CM.20.11.12

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for email about EDM 573. Having spoken to our local football club, the Albion, I am currently minded not to add my name in support. They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create and they also argue that policing standing areas is a real challenge. I am interested in the points you make about safety though and will go back to the Albion again with that information and seek further advice. Thank you for getting in touch and for letting me know your views.

Best wishes,
Caroline

Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

Tel: 020 7219 7025
Email: caroline.lucas.mp@parliament.uk

If you would like to receive weekly email news bulletins from Caroline Lucas please reply to this message putting 'email bulletin' in the subject line.


-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxx
Sent: 04 November 2012 12:30
To: LUCAS, Caroline
Subject: Letter from your constituent xxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxx
Southover Street
BRIGHTON
xxxxxxxxxx

Phone: xxxxxxxx

Email: xxxxxxxxx

Sunday 4 November 2012

Dear Caroline Lucas MP,

Safe standing at football matches.

Please support safe standing by signing EDM 573 and attending the FSF's safe standing event in Portcullis House (Attlee Suite) on Tuesday 11th December 2012.

The safe standing being proposed are rail seats, you can see a video of how they work here:

Safe standing at rail seats - YouTube

There is now support from football clubs throughout the country with safe standing pilot schemes being supported by the following clubs:
Aston Villa, Sunderland, Bristol City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Hull City and Peterborough United.

There is popular support amongst football fans - nine out of ten supporters back the choice to sit or stand (Football Supporters'
Federation National Survey 2012)
The Football Supporters' Federation - Informing, Supporting, Campaigning.

Choice - everyone benefits as those who wish to stand can do so, while those who prefer to sit no longer have to worry about having their view blocked. Clubs should also have the choice to introduce safe standing areas if they see fit.

Flexibility - UEFA regulations mean European competitions must be played in all-seater stadiums. Safe standing areas can be easily converted to and from seating so a club competing in Europe can go all-seater with minimum fuss.

Pricing - in both England and abroad ticket prices for standing areas are typically lower than in seated areas giving football clubs the opportunity to make stadiums more socially inclusive, while the higher density of supporters creates extra revenue.

Safety - safe standing can be introduced within stringent safety standards laid down in the Government's Green Guide. The Government does not claim that standing at football is inherently unsafe.

If you require further reading please visit the Football Supporters'
Federation's Safe Standing Campaign pages which dispel many of the myths surrounding this issue:
The Football Supporters' Federation - Informing, Supporting, Campaigning

Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

5658242381c7c6eae78c/9fceb360f7d3e9765689
(Signed with an electronic signature in accordance with subsection 7(3) of the Electronic Communications Act 2000.)


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[Bladders]

Erm, get there early and stand at the front? Just a thought.

''There you go son, have a shit view right down here behind the goal so that bloke in front of your seat up there can stand.''

 

[danish seagull]

Yes please, standing is much better

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

I was talking about away from home. As I've posted if you read back, I don't really care either way I just don't see it happening for some of the points raised.

Also It's a myth we'll make more money unless we're in the Premier League maybe. The North Stand never looks full to capacity at the moment so doubling it with standing and including the corners it's going to look a bit silly with 3000 people crammed in the middle and the sides and corners mostly empty.

With the corners it would be nearly 6000 standing capacity (I'm guessing) and I do not think cause a couple of hundred on here have voted for it in the poll that that many people actually want to stand in the North end, and if I'm wrong and they do how will you accommodate them with so few toilets and kiosks?

When the North was designed it wasn't with safe standing in mind. Sorry.

Though it would be kind of cool if we were the first to trial it.

Thanks for your support

 

[Bladders]

Thanks for your support

Well if you could truly pack the whole North end in with 6000 or so fans safe standing it would be quite a sight

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

Do you think it was Mr Hebberd who gave Caroline Lucas the advice in my attached email? I couldn't beleive this line in the email: "They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create." How on earth would safe standing detract from the community experience of the stadium?

Email below:

Ref: CL.JH.C0065.CM.20.11.12

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for email about EDM 573. Having spoken to our local football club, the Albion, I am currently minded not to add my name in support. They have concerns about the proposal because it would detract from the community experience they have worked so hard to create and they also argue that policing standing areas is a real challenge. I am interested in the points you make about safety though and will go back to the Albion again with that information and seek further advice. Thank you for getting in touch and for letting me know your views.

Best wishes,
Caroline

Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

Very interesting. They haven't discussed this with Sussex Police then. Because I have, and they are keen to see the demo and, knowing how well it's worked in Germany and what it adds to the atmosphere. Let's see what the 'Club's opinion' is after the roadshow has come to town.

Memo to Hebbard: it's a big bandwagon which is gathering a lot of momentum. Good luck in de-railing. Pun intended.

 

[Commander]

Nah, I know plenty of people who've taken their young ones to away matches ( not just Albion fans but Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal etc and they have also said it's a waste of time and wont bother again till they're a bit older and taller or people actually start sitting like they're supposed to.

Well I can tell you that I went to away matches as a kid and it was fine. There is absolutely no reason why you cant take a kid to an away match. OK, maybe don't take him to Palace or Millwall, but virtually anywhere else would be fine.

''There you go son, have a shit view right down here behind the goal so that bloke in front of your seat up there can stand.''

When I was a kid I always wanted to sit down the front, you're much closer to the players there and could get autgraphs etc before the game.

Basically, you're just making excuses, which is why you'd rather listen to Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal fans telling you not to do it than to actually take him and find out for yourself.

 

[sully]

..........or sit in the seats we paid for with the far superior view.

You're actually putting forward a very good argument as to why some areas should be for standing. You'd be able to sit in your chosen seat, then, as there would be a compelling argument that nobody should be standing in front of you.

 

[Commander]

You're actually putting forward a very good argument as to why some areas should be for standing. You'd be able to sit in your chosen seat, then, as there would be a compelling argument that nobody should be standing in front of you.

Very true. If there is safe standing available and someone stands in front of you in the seating areas then you have every right to to be annoyed about it.

 

[Bladders]

Well I can tell you that I went to away matches as a kid and it was fine. There is absolutely no reason why you cant take a kid to an away match. OK, maybe don't take him to Palace or Millwall, but virtually anywhere else would be fine.



When I was a kid I always wanted to sit down the front, you're much closer to the players there and could get autgraphs etc before the game.

Basically, you're just making excuses, which is why you'd rather listen to Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal fans telling you not to do it than to actually take him and find out for yourself.

Did that for his first ever game at the Amex, front row West corner. Shittiest view I've ever had at the stadium.

Luckily, it was Carling cup so all the seats behind were empty. Moved about 12 rows back for the 2nd half. Great view and luckily no tit was standing up blocking our view.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

Well if you could truly pack the whole North end in with 6000 or so fans safe standing it would be quite a sight

If you ask an Albion fan what their favourite Goldstone memory was a few will come up with classic evening games, and the great atmosphere that accompanied them. On those nights the North was often the 'sight' or the place to be. As you say, imagine the North packed with 6000 for a memorable cup game. We would be in danger of seeing a proper atmosphere at the AMEX!

 

[Bladders]

You're actually putting forward a very good argument as to why some areas should be for standing. You'd be able to sit in your chosen seat, then, as there would be a compelling argument that nobody should be standing in front of you.

You're quoting part of a conversation I was having about CURRENT seating/satnding at away matches, not safe standing areas possibly in the future.

 

[sully]

You're quoting part of a conversation I was having about CURRENT seating/satnding at away matches, not safe standing areas possibly in the future.

I'm well aware of that! This thread is about whether safe standing areas would have a positive effect, though. As I pointed out, your arguments prove that this would be the case.


Back on your sub-conversation, I took my kids to plenty of away games when they were very young. Generally, if there was a big away following, we'd move to the side or front in order that they could see, but I don't recall any instance where our day was ruined by it, as it generally meant that there was a great atmosphere.

 

[Bladders]

I'm well aware of that! This thread is about whether safe standing areas would have a positive effect, though. As I pointed out, your arguments prove that this would be the case.


Back on your sub-conversation, I took my kids to plenty of away games when they were very young. Generally, if there was a big away following, we'd move to the side or front in order that they could see, but I don't recall any instance where our day was ruined by it, as it generally meant that there was a great atmosphere.

Apologies Sully, I mis read your post

 

[les dynam]

Did that for his first ever game at the Amex, front row West corner. Shittiest view I've ever had at the stadium.

Luckily, it was Carling cup so all the seats behind were empty. Moved about 12 rows back for the 2nd half. Great view and luckily no tit was standing up blocking our view.

So what you want is basically the best possible seats, right in the middle at the back of the away section, and for everybody else to sit quietly and silently so your son gets a completely unobstructed view of the game? Can you really not see that you're being selfish.

Have you actually asked your son what he likes about football? When my old man starting taking me along, it was the atmosphere, the noise and the vibrancy that i found compelling as much as the football. Things that you seemingly don't want to see at Albion matches with your odd and selfish attitude.

 

[sully]

Apologies Sully, I mis read your post

 

[seagurn]

Dont see why they dont trial safe standing for the corners which still need the seats put in ? to see how it goes....

 

[Mayfair Seagull]

Dont see why they dont trial safe standing for the corners which still need the seats put in ? to see how it goes....

Absolutely - its a great opportunity for a trial. It would be fantastic if we could join Villa and Posh in the safe standing trial.