[Albion] Sadly Our Starting Eleven Just Looks Like Relegation Fodder

[Bold Seagull]

What makes you say Palace only look at the short term? 8 consecutive seasons in the PL for a club of their stature is success. You’d do well not to be so dismissive of such an achievement. It’s equal to our cumulative achievement in 119 years. Anyway, the long term has never existed in football. Good luck chasing that unicorn. It’s constant change, results driven, where even success can be rewarded with the sack and the average manager lasts some thing like 2 seasons. Run of poor results and you’re sacked. Run of great results and you’re poached. Each time, the incoming talks about building for the long term, but its incredibly rare they’re around long enough to execute. That’s football. Change is the only constant. Fast and furious.

The Palace example, Roy is in his 4th season, so is representing a bit of longer term consistency with your manager pays dividends given you are quoting that as success. Another side on a similar run of 'success' is Burnley, Dyche in his 9th season managing the club, Burnley very much the antithesis of constant change, fast and furious.

 

[portlock seagull]

Bloom's give his managers a fair crack. He's been here 11 years and has only sacked three managers, and of those, one was not his choice and one was sacked for disciplinary reasons - so in all that time, he's only dismissed one managers for his results.

This is a very stable club - and I think that will stand it in good stead

Yes, I agree. However my point was that football mgt is almost exclusively short term, as proven even at our #together club e.g. 6 managers in the Amex era. It’s not criticism. It’s just a fact. And that’s mistake number two I.e. thinking change only happens because of poor performance. Nope, football mgrs leave of their OWN accord too. Change is constant. Consequently so called ‘long term projects’ which every new manager at every football club since Adam was a lad talks about is really a myth ie they’re simply not around long enough to execute. Why is why I tend to see each season as a unique stand alone chance to make some history. Screw all this bullshit building for 5 years time. What garbage. Hardly any manager in history has stayed around long enough! Instead, saddle up, mount up and sound the charge bugler for this season because who knows if we’ll ever get another chance*




*Teams can go down as well as up the table. Even when playing fancy possession football. Especially with a leaky defence. And a shocking inability to convert chances.

 

[blue-shifted]

Yes, I agree. However my point was that football mgt is almost exclusively short term, as proven even at our #together club e.g. 6 managers in the Amex era. It’s not criticism. It’s just a fact. And that’s mistake number two I.e. thinking change only happens because of poor performance. Nope, football mgrs leave of their OWN accord too. Change is constant. Consequently so called ‘long term projects’ which every new manager at every football club since Adam was a lad talks about is really a myth ie they’re simply not around long enough to execute. Why is why I tend to see each season as a unique stand alone chance to make some history. Screw all this bullshit building for 5 years time. What garbage. Hardly any manager in history has stayed around long enough! Instead, saddle up, mount up and sound the charge bugler for this season because who knows if we’ll ever get another chance*




*Teams can go down as well as up the table. Even when playing fancy possession football. Especially with a leaky defence. And a shocking inability to convert chances.

It's not just to do with the manager. It's the whole philosophy of the club. In our club this is exemplified in the academy and our focus on youth, this will last long after GP has moved on. The next appointment won't be a Pulis or Big Sam type. It will be someone to carry on Graham's work

The previous poster was correct. We're a club looking at the long term. Palace aren't.

 

[Gwylan]

Screw all this bullshit building for 5 years time. What garbage. Hardly any manager in history has stayed around long enough!

That's just not true - this chopping and changing managers has happened in my lifetime. When I started watching football the 1st Division managers included Busby, Shankly, Revie, Nicholson, Greenwood, Bates, Catterick, Waddington and Mee, all of whom were at their clubs for more than 10 years, let alone five. Even managers who served shorter stints (Docherty, Mercer, Clough) did at least five years.

The Albion had a manager who served 28 years and he's not even in the top five of longest serving league managers

Five years is a long time now but historically that hasn't been the case.

 

[portlock seagull]

It's not just to do with the manager. It's the whole philosophy of the club. In our club this is exemplified in the academy and our focus on youth, this will last long after GP has moved on. The next appointment won't be a Pulis or Big Sam type. It will be someone to carry on Graham's work

The previous poster was correct. We're a club looking at the long term. Palace aren't.

If Potterball doesn’t amass the points needed to keep us up, or move us sufficiently up the table, is that still deemed a long term success? Especially if Palace were to stay up and/or finish above us? The long term is infinite. Over rated. And a destination rarely arrived at. Football is all about the short term I.e. this season, these players, this manager, these results etc. Goes badly and it’s all change. Goes well and it’s all change. With plenty of baton drops in between. So I’m all about going for it I’m the short term because you never know if you’ll get another chance

 

[portlock seagull]

That's just not true - this chopping and changing managers has happened in my lifetime. When I started watching football the 1st Division managers included Busby, Shankly, Revie, Nicholson, Greenwood, Bates, Catterick, Waddington and Mee, all of whom were at their clubs for more than 10 years, let alone five. Even managers who served shorter stints (Docherty, Mercer, Clough) did at least five years.

The Albion had a manager who served 28 years and he's not even in the top five of longest serving league managers

Five years is a long time now but historically that hasn't been the case.

Football started in 1993, Grandpa. Who are these people you speak of?

 

[Napper]

Any progression in 7 years though? Didn’t look like it yesterday. Their success is all down to Zaha, who has been outstanding for them. Once he leaves they’re in trouble.

they over achieved first year and have maintained it. So you can't really expect too much as improving mid table is pushing for europe. Very very hard for teams like Palace. Those places are mostly sewn up.

Zaha had a terrible season last year btw. We've been told every year since they came up they are gone.

They are clearly doing something right even if the approach is different to ours.

I love knocking the caravan club but on the pitch they are still ahead of us................... for now ( something unfortunately I've been repeating since my first game in the late 80s )

 

[The Wizard]

If Potterball doesn’t amass the points needed to keep us up, or move us sufficiently up the table, is that still deemed a long term success? Especially if Palace were to stay up and/or finish above us? The long term is infinite. Over rated. And a destination rarely arrived at. Football is all about the short term I.e. this season, these players, this manager, these results etc. Goes badly and it’s all change. Goes well and it’s all change. With plenty of baton drops in between. So I’m all about going for it I’m the short term because you never know if you’ll get another chance

Even IF we went down yes it would be a disaster, but I’d prefer to go down watching us play like we do now than inevitably go down playing shocking football like we were at the end of Hughtons reign, I absolutely love the bloke but towards the end of his tenure here I genuinely didn’t even want to go to games, which was a shock for me as a season ticket holder of nearly 20 years I’d never felt like that, even watching us lose to 9 men in league one I didn’t feel so bored during matches. Potters philosophies give the club direction, not just the first team.

We won’t go down with the squad we have, it’s our best full strength starting XI since we’ve been in this league by a long way for me, we are another top forward away from being a complete side. My only worry is keeping players fit, with how we play most of our most vital players are our most injury prone. We also need to become more adept at the dark arts of the game, hopefully Potter is realising we are too nice at times.

 

[Live by the sea]

For Christ’s sake , so much negativity on this thread . Listen - we are playing the best football and have the best squad possibly ever. We are hoovering up lots of very high quality young talent all over Europe . Look at how well our under 23’s and under 18’s are doing in their leagues .

We will not go down this season , we are playing far too well for that to happen. Light years ahead of the last season under CH. we are improving all the time .

Yes it’s a very hard league and we will drop points where we shouldn’t but come the end of the season we will finish somewhere between 42 & 49 points .

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

For Christ’s sake , so much negativity on this thread . .

We are living through the glory days for our club. We need to relax a little and enjoy it.

Mind you, THPP illustrates how good our manager is. I’m not sure our starting XI is much to write home about in this division. But a good coach gets them playing better than the sum of their parts, and we have a really very good coach..

 

[blue-shifted]

For Christ’s sake , so much negativity on this thread . Listen - we are playing the best football and have the best squad possibly ever. We are hoovering up lots of very high quality young talent all over Europe . Look at how well our under 23’s and under 18’s are doing in their leagues .

We will not go down this season , we are playing far too well for that to happen. Light years ahead of the last season under CH. we are improving all the time .

Yes it’s a very hard league and we will drop points where we shouldn’t but come the end of the season we will finish somewhere between 42 & 49 points .

It certainly is our best squad ever. The question is, will it be enough to stay up? I think there is a frustration at watching teams who we finished above last year using the PL millions to sign players like Watkins and Barkley and catapulting themselves up the league whereas we've been more circumspect and looked at the long term. I can understand why people were getting edgy about the situation towards the end of the transfer window

No criticism from me at all to TB or GP. We have a team that we can be proud to call our own. We're heading in the right direction and I've full confidence in our long term plan

 

[chaileyjem]

If Potterball doesn’t amass the points needed to keep us up, or move us sufficiently up the table, is that still deemed a long term success? Especially if Palace were to stay up and/or finish above us? The long term is infinite. Over rated. And a destination rarely arrived at. Football is all about the short term I.e. this season, these players, this manager, these results etc. Goes badly and it’s all change. Goes well and it’s all change. With plenty of baton drops in between. So I’m all about going for it I’m the short term because you never know if you’ll get another chance

You're right to say that football is notoriously knee jerk (as are football forums !) and a manager's shelf life can be limited but to dismiss a strategy or long term plans in Brighton's case is overlooking the change in the last 11 years or 23 years. It clearly isn't all about the short term otherwise our team this season wouldn't feature Ben White, Alzate, and Connolly (thanks to our long term investment in development). We wouldn't in all likelihood have signed players like Welbeck or Lallana or Lamptey (thanks to our investment in backroom staff like Ashworth) , we wouldn't have reasonably healthy finances to get us through Covid (thanks to administrators like Barber). We wouldn't still have Graham Potter - other owners might have already sacked him. That owner being Tony Bloom who you presumably think should "go for it" and forget all that fancy long term planning stuff thats transformed the club.*

*Apart from cheating obviously - which is where you - in another thread- have argued we should have long term plans !!

 

[dazzer6666]

It certainly is our best squad ever. The question is, will it be enough to stay up? I think there is a frustration at watching teams who we finished above last year using the PL millions to sign players like Watkins and Barkley and catapulting themselves up the league whereas we've been more circumspect and looked at the long term. I can understand why people were getting edgy about the situation towards the end of the transfer window

No criticism from me at all to TB or GP. We have a team that we can be proud to call our own. We're heading in the right direction and I've full confidence in our long term plan

Comfortably I reckon, will be 45 points+.

We’re all feeling frustrated at the moment because we haven’t got what we feel we deserve based on performances (Man U in particular), but we’re actually a point ahead on the tracker.

Creating chances, scoring more (every game so far), midfielders netting (big issue up until now), much greater squad depth, real class, nouse and experience added in Lallana, Veltman and now Welbeck, White slotting in very well, Alzate looking the business......and all that plus the prospect of Jose and Florin back at some point to strengthen even further.

Squad depth is such that I’m quite relaxed about Dunky being suspended - in any previous season recently this would have been a crisis.

 

[portlock seagull]

You're right to say that football is notoriously knee jerk (as are football forums !) and a manager's shelf life can be limited but to dismiss a strategy or long term plans in Brighton's case is overlooking the change in the last 11 years or 23 years. It clearly isn't all about the short term otherwise our team this season wouldn't feature Ben White, Alzate, and Connolly (thanks to our long term investment in development). We wouldn't in all likelihood have signed players like Welbeck or Lallana or Lamptey (thanks to our investment in backroom staff like Ashworth) , we wouldn't have reasonably healthy finances to get us through Covid (thanks to administrators like Barber). We wouldn't still have Graham Potter - other owners might have already sacked him. That owner being Tony Bloom who you presumably think should "go for it" and forget all that fancy long term planning stuff thats transformed the club.*

*Apart from cheating obviously - which is where you - in another thread- have argued we should have long term plans !!

Football can change in a heart beat and leaves so called long term plans in tatters. And I was only commenting on football managers, not everything else you’ve brought into the equation.

 

[jakarta]

Squad depth is such that I’m quite relaxed about Dunky being suspended - in any previous season recently this would have been a crisis.

Quite, a couple of years back a Team with no Dunk or Duffy starting would have caused a meltdown on this Board!

 

[blue-shifted]

Football can change in a heart beat and leaves so called long term plans in tatters. And I was only commenting on football managers, not everything else you’ve brought into the equation.

So what's your plan?

Bin the academy, let the stadium go to ruin, default on debts whenever we need, appoint an ultra pragmatic manager and gamble the clubs future by throwing every available penny on wages for mercenaries on short term contracts?

Sir, there's a club not to far from us who seem a better fit for you to support.

Take care

 

[chaileyjem]

Football can change in a heart beat and leaves so called long term plans in tatters. And I was only commenting on football managers, not everything else you’ve brought into the equation.

It can. See this season.
Not sure how you can divorce the success of a football manager (by the way Potter is deliberately the head "coach" ) from their owners, squads, and finances or the influence of Tony Bloom in Albion's case but fair enough.

PS: you brought up cheating !!

 

[blue-shifted]

Quite, a couple of years back a Team with no Dunk or Duffy starting would have caused a meltdown on this Board!

If that happened two years ago, I for one, would have been melting down

 

[sparkie]

You're right to say that football is notoriously knee jerk (as are football forums !) and a manager's shelf life can be limited but to dismiss a strategy or long term plans in Brighton's case is overlooking the change in the last 11 years or 23 years. It clearly isn't all about the short term otherwise our team this season wouldn't feature Ben White, Alzate, and Connolly (thanks to our long term investment in development). We wouldn't in all likelihood have signed players like Welbeck or Lallana or Lamptey (thanks to our investment in backroom staff like Ashworth) , we wouldn't have reasonably healthy finances to get us through Covid (thanks to administrators like Barber). We wouldn't still have Graham Potter - other owners might have already sacked him. That owner being Tony Bloom who you presumably think should "go for it" and forget all that fancy long term planning stuff thats transformed the club.*

*Apart from cheating obviously - which is where you - in another thread- have argued we should have long term plans !!

I really like the video in this thread below.

It seems to illustrate the albion strategy well.

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?373018-A-strategy-to-stay-in-the-Premier-League

It's very interesting to see how Watford lost their way after this and the consequences of the panic they got into, sacking manager after manager last season.

 

[zefarelly]

Quite, a couple of years back a Team with no Dunk or Duffy starting would have caused a meltdown on this Board!

That's an understatement, somer would he sucumbed to instant vapourisation

When was the last time we started a match without either ?