Russian jet shot down ,WW3 about to begin ?

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

You need to think about what you are saying, and what you sound like IMO.

Why? Do you think for one second that ISIS care about you or anyone you love? Do you think that they deserve your pity, your mercy? What do you think would happen to you if they got their paws on YOU?

If I sound like a bloke who would happily blow the lot of them to hell? Good.

 

[beorhthelm]

Letting others carry the fight in the face of barbaric fascism might be pragmatic but it's not very edifying or British!

the issue is, they arent "carrying the fight", there's a lot of ordanance being drop with little strategic direction. its an exercise in being seen to do something, without commiting. the west want to be non-interventionist following the Iraq debacle, but theres a persistant sense "something" has to be done. airstrikes are a something. but all the military experts know and will tell you ISIL wont be defeated by disruption from airstrikes, although they have probably been contained. which is probably sufficient for now. its all a bit of a wooly mess really.

Spheres of influence went out with the last century, and the breakup of the USSR.

recent and current events would suggest they are alive and well. they might not be as well defined as 25 years ago, but they are still there.

 

[alfredmizen]

Ground troops in, scorched ISiL, or leave it. Bombing a waste of time. Negociation a waste of time. Expecting Putin to 'come onside' a waste of time. Its time for those who may (US, UK, France, a few others) to decide whether to blink or go in, eyes open. I am not sure myself what's best (who the feck does?).

But don't forget, this has no more to do with Islam than the Nazis 'experimenting' on children (e.g., breaking limbs repeatedly to see how many times they would reheal) has anything to do with Chritianity, or even Germanity.

These maniacs want to convert everyone, and anyone who says' 'no, ta' will be exterminated. In some ways they are exactly like Cybermen.

Oh for goodness sake get your head out of your Arse.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

the issue is, they arent "carrying the fight", there's a lot of ordanance being drop with little strategic direction. its an exercise in being seen to do something, without commiting. the west want to be non-interventionist following the Iraq debacle, but theres a persistant sense "something" has to be done. airstrikes are a something. but all the military experts know and will tell you ISIL wont be defeated by disruption from airstrikes, although they have probably been contained. which is probably sufficient for now. its all a bit of a wooly mess really.

Agree with your general analysis but I would say containing, degrading and killing as many as we can is "carrying the fight" to them. Not decisive or likely to bring them down but it will do for now.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh for goodness sake get your head out of your Arse.

Still here, being abusive, I see. I'm sorry for your loss. Whatever it is.

 

[alfredmizen]

Still here, being abusive, I see. I'm sorry for your loss. Whatever it is.

Abusive ? That ? Dry your eyes princess, you need to man up a bit.

 

[pastafarian]

Its very simple…..Britain should bomb The Islamic State in Syria

Our air support should be in co ordination with ground troops who are non western.

When the end is in sight and the morons from The Caliphate are surrounded the rules of engagement should be very clear,…… no prisoners allowed…..every single one of these morons should be hunted down and exterminated……no point in having these winkers captured and spread filth amongst fellow inmates in jail.

 

[Silkster365]

Oh for goodness sake get your head out of your Arse.

Bit harsh, it was a perfectly decent post [emoji848]

 

[heathgate]

Look....this is nothing more than a clear example of how inexperienced Russia is at this warfare business........they were ordinary in Afghanistan, they actually made an inconclusive mess in Chechnya. ...and still do to some extent, and had a brief David v Goliath effort in Georgia, no result in effect.

Any western nation would have sent in massive 'top' cover to clear the hills surrounding the helicopter target landing zones, any threat would have been eliminate long before it got to the point that a TOW missile could have been assembled, targeted and fired.

That's why this incident will come to nothing more than a week or so of Putin posturing, he will probably release some footage of him horse riding with his shirt off, and that will be that.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Well we wake up to Putin not bombing Turkey, and so we are not at war with Russia.

Good news, and hopefully he'll now stop his ongoing shennanigans in various sovereign airspaces.


Let's not get involved bombing Syria now, send a bit of naval support for the French aircraft carrier, nothing more.

 

[dingodan]

I think you will find that I based my initial response on your use of the word 'evidence', not needed anywhere other than a court of law.

Pedant.

BS.

 

[dingodan]

Why? Do you think for one second that ISIS care about you or anyone you love? Do you think that they deserve your pity, your mercy? What do you think would happen to you if they got their paws on YOU?

If I sound like a bloke who would happily blow the lot of them to hell? Good.

I think you totally missed my point. I don't think ISIS care about me no, why would I.

I just think when you say you want to go out guns blazing and you want to take as many of them out before they get you, well that sounds like a suicide attack and you sound like a Jihadi.

Sorry.

 

[virtual22]

Putin has been clear from Day 1 - he's against regime change in the Middle East. He was right about Iraq. He was right about Libya. He's been proved right in Syria. It's funny how Putin is being painted as this war-mongering mental case, when he's been anti-war for years & the West have gone ahead anyway. You're right - his aim is to keep Assad in power, and I'm sure oil plays a part. However, he also says that having a strong state is needed to combat ISIS in Syria. And he's right. Funny how the West are now suggesting that removing Assad isn't the main end-game now.

Say what you like about Putin, but he's been mainly right in the Middle-East. The West should be supporting his position after we've made such a mess in the last decade. FFS, we even decided it would be a good idea to arm "moderate rebels" in Syria, when it was blatantly obvious extremists would take those weapons given half a chance.

My sentiments exactly. If people take time out to listen to the guy on the middle east rather than believe everything they read in the western press his record on these matters is pretty impressive. We all know he has issues in other areas but our record is abysmal, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, pretty much everything we've touched in the last fifteen years has ended in a disaster.

Bombing Syria will merely make more radicals from hitting civilians (remember the US bombing the Médecins Sans Frontières hospital recently and calling it collateral damage?). I think it's just best if we let Russia, Iran and other middle east countries sort it out themselves.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I think you totally missed my point. I don't think ISIS care about me no, why would I.

I just think when you say you want to go out guns blazing and you want to take as many of them out before they get you, well that sounds like a suicide attack and you sound like a Jihadi.

Sorry.

Perhaps I do sound like a jihadi. Perhaps I think it is about time they get what they want. Perhaps it's time for the crusade they keep banging on about. Perhaps it's time that the civilised world sorts their Islamic shit out for them?

Just saying.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

My sentiments exactly. If people take time out to listen to the guy on the middle east rather than believe everything they read in the western press his record on these matters is pretty impressive. We all know he has issues in other areas but our record is abysmal, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, pretty much everything we've touched in the last fifteen years has ended in a disaster.

Bombing Syria will merely make more radicals from hitting civilians (remember the US bombing the Médecins Sans Frontières hospital recently and calling it collateral damage?). I think it's just best if we let Russia, Iran and other middle east countries sort it out themselves.

You are spot on about Putin being pro the status quo in the Mid East but I think you are conflating self interest with peaceful aims. Russia has steadily lost all its influence in the region since the USSR collapsed to the point that the only friends it has are Assad and some radicals in Iran and Iraq whom it maintains relations with, largely, by supplying military hardware and intelligence.

There is no honour in his position. There is no honour in ours. It's a mess of self interest, shady deals and bloody murder. The only clear combatants are ISIS, who are clear in their intent, and everyone else. It's the only fight in town worth having.

 

[alfredmizen]

Bit harsh, it was a perfectly decent post [emoji848]

Most of it was , then i got to the ''its nothing to do with islam'' bollocks.

 

[dingodan]

Perhaps I do sound like a jihadi. Perhaps I think it is about time they get what they want. Perhaps it's time for the crusade they keep banging on about. Perhaps it's time that the civilised world sorts their Islamic shit out for them?

Just saying.

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Surf's Up]

Couldn't be arsed to trawl through this three to check whether this has been posted before but amused me.........

 

[Surf's Up]

bloody predictive text... thread, not three!!!!

 

[Triggaaar]

Just don't mention the "Satanic Verses", which destroys Islam, to them.

Are you talking about something from the Quran or Rushdie's book, and how does it destroy Islam?