Machiavelli
Well-known member
You don't seem to think this was premeditated. I think this was.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Spend the weekend doing some history research. Your understanding of what unfolded between Churchill and Roosevelt I suspect even a Primary School child to correct you on.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
He did. He said that he'd wear a suit when they had peace.
- Aug 8, 2005
- 27,542
There it is:
BREAKING: Keir Starmer has spoken to both President Trump and President Zelenskyy tonight No 10 said: “The Prime Minister has tonight spoken to both President Trump and President Zelensky.
"He retains unwavering support for Ukraine, and is doing all he can to find a path forward to a lasting peace based on sovereignty and security for Ukraine.
"The Prime Minister looks forward to hosting international leaders on Sunday including President Zelenskyy."
- Aug 8, 2005
- 27,542
Okay. Charm not confrontation.
Powers of persuasion: how Churchill brought America on side
In time for the 50th anniversary of Churchill’s death comes this pacy novel about his attempts to persuade the Americans to join the war. It is January 1941; President Roosevelt’s special envoy Harry Hopkins arrives in Blitz-torn London and is subjected to Churchill’s charm offensive. Hopkins, a...
www.spectator.co.uk
A f***ing wimp of a manThere it is:
No 10 said: “The Prime Minister has tonight spoken to both President Trump and President Zelensky.
"He retains unwavering support for Ukraine, and is doing all he can to find a path forward to a lasting peace based on sovereignty and security for Ukraine.
"The Prime Minister looks forward to hosting international leaders on Sunday including President Zelenskyy."
- Aug 8, 2005
- 27,542
And
www.dailymail.co.uk
MAX HASTINGS: Privately Churchill called them 'bloody Yankees' - but with a lover's ardour he fawned, flattered and flirted to woo the U.S.
In part four of this major series, Max Hastings tells how Churchill realised Britain's only chance of beating Nazi Germany lay in persuading the United States to join the war.
The US either want to sell their arms, or they don't
Trump talks about the security issue as "we'll be over there", implying that many US companies/contractors will be present in Ukraine (for mineral exploration, extraction, reconstruction...) and implying that Putin would not dare attack areas with these people in place.
There maybe SOME grain of reality in that, but there's a huge window for Putin to rearm and cause trouble before those companies would be in place...and this is Zelenskiy's problem I think: the minerals deal is from the US, but no security - any ceasefire would be paper thin.
Sorry guys, I'm tired and rambling trying to make sense of it all...which I really can't.
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Okay. Charm not confrontation.
Powers of persuasion: how Churchill brought America on side
In time for the 50th anniversary of Churchill’s death comes this pacy novel about his attempts to persuade the Americans to join the war. It is January 1941; President Roosevelt’s special envoy Harry Hopkins arrives in Blitz-torn London and is subjected to Churchill’s charm offensive. Hopkins, a...
None of that backs your original post that Churchill had to beg the US in the face of lies, resistance or unreasonable demands or outright bullying.And
MAX HASTINGS: Privately Churchill called them 'bloody Yankees' - but with a lover's ardour he fawned, flattered and flirted to woo the U.S.
In part four of this major series, Max Hastings tells how Churchill realised Britain's only chance of beating Nazi Germany lay in persuading the United States to join the war.
Roosevelt knew the US was going to have to help defeat the Nazis, his issue was selling it slowly to the American people.
Churchill wasn’t faced with lies about Hitler being an all right bloke, or having to sign away the UK’s mineral wealth, Churchill’s main battle with Roosevelt was time, and that was hastened by the Nazis sinking US ships, then Pearl Harbour.
But your original point that Churchill would have bent over to the likes of Trump is ridiculous. Churchill had his faults but he knew what a fascist was.
It was about nato membership being on their doorstep . They secured the perimeter and holding it from what Russia say
Not a trump supporter by any means
There’s probably a whole load of logistical barriers but it would be nice if in our globally televised match in the world’s oldest cup competition on Sunday we wore our Ukraine coloured away kit
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,580
It was always a fine balancing act on that knife edge between Farage Good/Trump Bad and it seems a few more have chosen they'd rather be on the Trump side tonight 
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
'If' is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting there, but I pray it happens!
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Thats bullshit though. The last NATO expansion anywhere near Russia would have been 2004. Are you saying they were that bothered by it they waited 10 years to annexe Crimea, then another 8 years before invading the Ukraine fully?
I mean for the Russian apologists, and it seems there are many of you, it gives a tangible excuse in polite conversation, but the reality is Russia didn’t like Ukraine getting European and has long coveted getting some of its economic success back on their own books.
Hats off to Zelensky ! He was ambushed. He could never have signed away his country's mineral riches without any security guarantees. He did well to refrain from chinning the orange one. I would have failed miserably. It's about time that Europe faced up to its responsibilities for its own defence, instead of depending upon the U.S. Being chucked out of the oval office should be worn by Zelensky as a badge of honour.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,620
Fox news zelensky live interview starting at 6pm ET (11pm here - in 10 mins)
Fox News Live Stream in HD Watch for free USTV24/7
Click to Watch Fox News live Streaming for free. The 24/7 uninterrupted Fox News live Stream in HD Quality is available.
www.newslive.com
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Motogull
Todd Warrior
- Sep 16, 2005
- 10,904
Ah, the Mitch MConnell who agreed that the Bungkunnt's conduct on Capitol Hill met the criteria to find him guilty or whatever fudged the opportunity to censor him. He's as weak as warm piss.
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
This rather assumes that the US are open to persuasion. From where I'm sitting, it's as plain as day that Trump and his cabal of c***s support Russia. Thus, anything Zelensky says or does (short of capitulation) would result in the same thing. Time to stop kidding ourselves.
PS: Roosevelt's America was isolationist, not pro Hitler!