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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
Hold on a minute, who is keen for Turkey to start attacking Russia? I didn't see anything to suggest that was encouraged or people were keen?
Obviously, it makes not one iota of difference what any of us on NSC think in relation to what may or may not happen in reality. I certainly made the point that it would be good for Turkey to fully align with Ukraine politically (stop playing both sides) certainly not keen they get into conflict with Russia, but playing devil's advocate, that also will come back to soley what Russia does (Turkey wont attact Russia unprovoked imho). Lets just assume that Russia is stupid enough to sink a grain ship under Turkish naval escort, then do Turks appease/roll over or stand firm/fight back? Which of those two options is safer?
It is Russia, not Turkey, that had threatened to sink 3rd world grain ships, if Russia does that or even hits Turkish naval vessel, what do you think will or should happen next? With the greatest respect to you, what's the plan?
If you think Turkey will or should respond, I'd personslly think you're a realist not defacto keen for Turkey to fight Russia.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
this
How does this whole thing end without Putin being in a desperate situation at some point?
Scappa
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2017
- 1,584
Same as it can always end. By declaring 'denazification' complete, repatriating all displaced persons and pulling his troops out of all occupied territory
Yeah pretty sure he'd be dead by his own people within a week. Not happening is it?
He needs this war to continue forever, for his own survival.
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,858
Apart from anything else, Turkey as a military force, is certainly aggressive, but it is a hardly a tier 1 force..... their best days are had flattening civilian enclaves in the PKK conflict that crosses their border with Syria....aka Kurdistan.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,624
But the thorny issue is Crimea and Donbas. Does he leave those? Ukraine will still fight for them, so there's no easy end
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
You're right and there still wouldn't be peace even if Putin did pull out, which he won't.
As long as he remains in power he will continue to be a malign terrorist, doing everything to destabilise
If that means just lobbing missiles, he'll still do it. A western leaning prosperous Ukraine in the EU, is a huge threat to his criminal, backwards kleptocracy.
Putin must be defeated for this to stop and any type of real peace to return.
Every single inch of Ukrainian soil must be vacated by Putin’s nazis. Putin and his psychotic henchmen must be tried for crimes against humanity. Putin’s military must clear all of the Ukrainian minefields. Russia must foot the bill for reparations. All kidnapped Ukrainians must be returned to their homeland. Only god knows how justice will be served for the families whose breadwinners were collateral damage in this Putin inflicted genocide, and for the women raped by Wagner forces, and their offspring.
I’d like to see red square reduced to another ‘ground zero’, and to become a permanent site of remembrance to those that perished and to the lives that were torn apart by the ideology of an autocratic regime incapable of valuing human life. A vacant red square could serve as a reminder of what happens when you appease a crazed dictator……
I’d like to see red square reduced to another ‘ground zero’, and to become a permanent site of remembrance to those that perished and to the lives that were torn apart by the ideology of an autocratic regime incapable of valuing human life. A vacant red square could serve as a reminder of what happens when you appease a crazed dictator……
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driddles
Well-known member
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
Fantastic from Zelensky to a group of African journos about Putins pulling out of grain deal (and threatening shipments).
About time the world called Putin out for what he is, a "fascist".
Russia is by all definitions of fascism, a fascist regime and Putin is undoubtedly fascist.
Need to say it more often.
About time the world called Putin out for what he is, a "fascist".
Russia is by all definitions of fascism, a fascist regime and Putin is undoubtedly fascist.
Need to say it more often.
That's a really good (wish) list
. Sadly I don't think it will all happen, but I truly hope much of it does.Great passion from Zelenskiy - he/Ukraine need to keep engaging with African leaders (well, not those protected by Wagner so much).
I particularly enjoyed this reply in that thread @peterward
Yep, and that's why Russia needs to lose
FWIW...I don't think Turkey and Russia will have an armed conflict. If Turkey decide to protect the grain ships I think there may be a skirmish or two, then Russia will back down (they will find a way to make a 'generous' gesture to the third world etc etc etc).
Ukraine and its Allies must not back down to Putin in any way. They did 9 years ago (by ignoring pretty much) when he invaded Crimea, then Donbas...and what happened 8 years later? He tried to take all of Ukraine.
IF Putin is not faced down, next he could march into the Suwalki corridor, and again threaten nuclear weapons. If he took that, then he would be into Poland and/or Lithuania (or he could invade Moldova in the south) and again he'd threaten with Nuclear weapons. HE WOULD NOT STOP. He needs to be faced down.
Ukraine and its Allies must not back down to Putin in any way. They did 9 years ago (by ignoring pretty much) when he invaded Crimea, then Donbas...and what happened 8 years later? He tried to take all of Ukraine.
IF Putin is not faced down, next he could march into the Suwalki corridor, and again threaten nuclear weapons. If he took that, then he would be into Poland and/or Lithuania (or he could invade Moldova in the south) and again he'd threaten with Nuclear weapons. HE WOULD NOT STOP. He needs to be faced down.
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Well stated, thanks