[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Insel affe]

Terrorist Igor Ghirkin predicting conflict between Turkiye and Russia.

Today Russia pulled out of the grain deal and says it will sink any boats, not authorised by it carrying Ukrainain grain, and Turkey says grain shipments will continue and Turkish Navy will guarantee their protection.

Girkin goes a bit further...... could be very interesting and certainly welcome if Erdoğan fully bins off Putin and sides with Ukraine.

any escalation of countries involved will not be a good thing, it will put Putin on the back foot and he will become more desperate, desperate people do desperate things.

 

[A1X]

Turkey is in NATO remember, last thing we need is those two getting fighty

 

[¡Cereal Killer!]

Putin threatens to invade 'most dangerous place on earth'

Vladimir Putin is threatening to use Wagner mercenary forces to invade a land strip of vital military importance for Russia, a source has claimed.

www.google.com

If they do decide to invade this, who would NATO be defending against? Would it be Russia or Belarus or both?
Would obviously be where the invasion comes from and by the article it would be Wagner troops from Belarus, so will NATO be forced to go to war against Belarus?

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

Terrorist Igor Ghirkin predicting conflict between Turkiye and Russia.

Today Russia pulled out of the grain deal and says it will sink any boats, not authorised by it carrying Ukrainain grain, and Turkey says grain shipments will continue and Turkish Navy will guarantee their protection.

Girkin goes a bit further...... could be very interesting and certainly welcome if Erdoğan fully bins off Putin and sides with Ukraine.

Have Turkey actually said that? That would be massive and put Russia in direct confrontation with NATO.
Im not sure I trust Erdogan though.

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

Putin threatens to invade 'most dangerous place on earth'

Vladimir Putin is threatening to use Wagner mercenary forces to invade a land strip of vital military importance for Russia, a source has claimed.

www.google.com

If they do decide to invade this, who would NATO be defending against? Would it be Russia or Belarus or both?
Would obviously be where the invasion comes from and by the article it would be Wagner troops from Belarus, so will NATO be forced to go to war against Belarus?

You would imagine if it’s such a week spot there’s a few NATO troops dotted around, that and decent air cover/missile defence/offensive systems. If they struggle in Ukraine (who haven’t had the luxury of the full range of modern weapons) you’d imagine it might not go well there.

 

[sparkie]

Turkey is in NATO remember, last thing we need is those two getting fighty

On the contrary. We want Turkey to decide to open the Bosphorus to the NATO navies, but not the Russian Baltic or Pacific fleets.

 

[A1X]

On the contrary. We want Turkey to decide to open the Bosphorus to the NATO navies, but not the Russian Baltic or Pacific fleets.

Not for the first time on this thread I feel a need to point out NATO and Russia going to war would be a bad thing and should be avoided at basically any cost.

 

[raymondo]

Terrorist Igor Ghirkin predicting conflict between Turkiye and Russia.

Today Russia pulled out of the grain deal and says it will sink any boats, not authorised by it carrying Ukrainain grain, and Turkey says grain shipments will continue and Turkish Navy will guarantee their protection.

Girkin goes a bit further...... could be very interesting and certainly welcome if Erdoğan fully bins off Putin and sides with Ukraine.

Certainly interesting. My feeling though is that Putin would back down if Turkey protected the grain ships. There could certainly be a minor skirmish, but I don't feel it would escalate fully.
Still... I know approximately nothing about what those two would do .

 

[Triggaaar]

If they do decide to invade this, who would NATO be defending against? Would it be Russia or Belarus or both?

Anyone stupid enough to get in the way.

 

[peterward]

any escalation of countries involved will not be a good thing, it will put Putin on the back foot and he will become more desperate, desperate people do desperate things.

There's little alternative except to roll over. There is no escalation,
Russia is weaponsing 3rd world food as leverage for its genocidal fascist invasion.

All countries need to continually stand up to this bully until he's defeated or backs down.

Give 1 inch now and the problems will magnify not recede.

There's a moral right and imperative to make sure this essential food gets to Africa etc. If Putin sinks a vessel, that is his doing and the consequences also.

In 2008 he invaded and carved up Georgia, we looked the other way, in 2014 he stole crimea, invaded donbass, to set up puppet proxies, shot down an airliner, he then flattened Syrian cities, let off a chemical weapon in Salisbury (the 2nd in UK), and we still expressed "deep concerns" but carried on sweeping it under carpet.

Now a fully fascist genocide, Mass murder, rape, torture, a total Web of lies and now even food for the world's poorest. Nothing is off limits.

Appeasing this utter lunatic doesn't work. He senses weakness or indifference like a shark does blood and will exploit it.

It's extreme folly to treat Putin like any normal bilateral politician. He will always escalate into any weakness, he will only stop or be stopped when he's up against strength.

Nobody wants this madness and ofc NATO country and Russia isnt good, but hes got the weaker hand, and there's no way out if it, that is better than standing up to him and defeating him now, once for all.

 

[peterward]

Have Turkey actually said that? That would be massive and put Russia in direct confrontation with NATO.
Im not sure I trust Erdogan though.

Quoted at beginning of July. Similar happened in October last year when Russia pulled out

 

[sparkie]

Not for the first time on this thread I feel a need to point out NATO and Russia going to war would be a bad thing and should be avoided at basically any cost.

But not at the cost of always appeasing Putin. One day the punk has to be fronted and asked if he feels lucky ?

 

[Nobby]

There's little alternative accept to roll over. There is no escalation,
Russia is weaponsing 3rd world food as leverage for its genocidal fascist invasion.

All countries need to continually stand up to this bully until he's defeated or backs down.

Give 1 inch now and the problems will magnify not recede.

There's a moral right and imperative to make sure this essential food gets to Africa etc. If Putin sinks a vessel, that is his doing and the consequences also.

In 2008 he invaded and carved up Georgia, we looked the other way, in 2014 he stole crimea, invaded donbass, to set up puppet proxies, shot down an airliner, he then flattened Syrian cities, let off a chemical weapon in Salisbury (the 2nd in UK), and we still expressed "deep concerns" but carried on sweeping it under carpet.

Now a fully fascist genocide, Mass murder, rape, torture, a total Web of lies and now even food for the world's poorest. Nothing is off limits.

Appeasing this utter lunatic doesn't work. He senses weakness or indifference like a shark does blood and will exploit it.

It's extreme folly to treat Putin like any normal bilateral politician. He will always escalate into any weakness, he will only stop or be stopped when he's up against strength.

Nobody wants this madness and ofc NATO country and Russia isnt good, but hes got the weaker hand, and there's no way out if it, that isn't better than standing up to him and defeating him now, once for all.

Top post!!

WW2 started because we constantly looked the other way as nation states were invaded. We cannot let Putin and Russia continue to escalate this - we have to start to properly stand up for Ukraine

The problem is, as in the late 30’s, the political will wasn’t there in either Britain or the US.
Will it be the same again. Many Republicans are isolationists - therefore appeasers

 

[A1X]

But not at the cost of always appeasing Putin. One day the punk has to be fronted and asked if he feels lucky ?

And when our residual atoms are swimming in the radioactive soup that used to be the air we will have our answer.

 

[peterward]

And when our residual atoms are swimming in the radioactive soup that used to be the air we will have our answer.

I think everyone is acutely aware of the risks of nuclear holocaust. But what's the solution?

Allow a permanent member of the UN to blackmail world by threatening to nuke if it doesn't get its way?

Go all Neville Chamberlain, give Putin what he wants and declare peace in our time?

If its any comfort, I reckon Putin is terrified of dying, he loves his money, luxury and power, hes not islamic state (nor are the Duma, Oligarchs, FSB or army)...... thus his paranoia and increasing repression.

When Prighorzhin came, he legged it. It's all bluff imho, raising the stakes to try and bluff the pot.

USSR & Russia been threatening global annilation for decades, escalating, raising stakes in hope you back down or when they do theyve got more than they started with!

We have to be careful and sensible but also resolute and uncompromising.

 

[driddles]

And when our residual atoms are swimming in the radioactive soup that used to be the air we will have our answer.

I find this stuff comical now. Putler has threatened nukes so many times and done nothing because he knows that he and russia will be wiped out within hours of launching one.

 

[driddles]

Remember putin is terrified of dying. Has special people handle his food, stays away from damn near everyone, has identical rooms in multiple cities so few people know exactly where he is when he is filmed, has the same group of people with him for photo ops and just has them change their clothes to whatever is appropriate for the moment. He's not doing anything that leads to his instant death.

 

[A1X]

I think everyone is acutely aware of the risks of nuclear holocaust. But what's the solution?

Allow a permanent member of the UN to blackmail world by threatening to nuke if it doesn't get its way?

Go all Neville Chamberlain, give Putin what he wants and declare peace in our time?

If its any comfort, I reckon Putin is terrified of dying, he loves his money, luxury and power, hes not islamic state (nor are the Duma, Oligarchs, FSB or army)...... thus his paranoia and increasing repression.

When Prighorzhin came, he legged it. It's all bluff imho, raising the stakes to try and bluff the pot.

USSR & Russia been threatening global annilation for decades, escalating, raising stakes in hope you back down or when they do theyve got more than they started with!

We have to be careful and sensible but also resolute and uncompromising.

I don’t disagree with anything you say. I’m just suggesting we shouldn’t be quite so blasé at the prospect of Turkey, a NATO member, wading in on armed conflict with Russia.

 

[GT49er]

And when our residual atoms are swimming in the radioactive soup that used to be the air we will have our answer.

Oh gosh - hadn't thought of that. That would be absolutely ghastly (although we wouldn't conciously aware of it, I suppose). Better give in to him now, in case he turns nasty.

 

[A1X]

Oh gosh - hadn't thought of that. That would be absolutely ghastly (although we wouldn't conciously aware of it, I suppose). Better give in to him now, in case he turns nasty.

Wilful misinterpretation when I expected better. The point was made in relation to some users seemingly keen for Turkey to start attacking Russia, when in fact it is not something which should be encouraged.