[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[driddles]

are you suggesting a 400km detour through Russia to come to Crimea from the east? they couldn't hope to maintain that type of operation logistically, and would have a hard time maintaining political support.

Perhaps a large truck loaded with explosives for the Kerch bridge? Doesn't have to be a detour, get some partisans and a truck that are already closer to the bridge and slowly supply them with the explosives.. perhaps?

 

[peterward]

Literally just posted. Another interesting rant by Prigorzhin about the MOD and the failings of their war. As @Eric the meek alluded.

Something has to give very soon. Roll on July 1st.

 

[Triggaaar]

What are you talking about now? How have I changed my tune?

Whilst I'm not counting my chicken about avoiding WW3, I think you used to worry more about Russia using nukes

 

[Triggaaar]

Of course it means something.

Sure, some countries still trade with Russia, but the much smaller number of trading partners means the laws of demand and supply are working well, and not in Russia's favour. It doesn't achieve a good price for its products when it is the seller, and pays top dollar for imports that few countries are able and willing to supply.

When Russia goes to the market to buy something, say attack drones, very few countries are prepared to break the sanctions and supply them.

You're talking about Russia now, during sanctions, but your comment was about a lasting legacy of the world not believing Russia lies. Unless Russia gets lucky, and gets an actual democracy, their dictators will continue to lie, and (after sanctions are over) people will continue to trade with them.

Russia has lost the trust and goodwill of half the world's wealthiest trading nations. Over twenty years of global trading up in smoke.

The sanctions will end one day, and due to Russia's resources, it'll be earlier than you like.

 

[The Clamp]

Whilst I'm not counting my chicken about avoiding WW3, I think you used to worry more about Russia using nukes

Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry.
Yes. That’s true. I still don’t rule it out but with his repeated threats over time and his repeated failure to follow through with his threats, I’m less concerned now.

 

[Eric the meek]

You're talking about Russia now, during sanctions, but your comment was about a lasting legacy of the world not believing Russia lies. Unless Russia gets lucky, and gets an actual democracy, their dictators will continue to lie, and (after sanctions are over) people will continue to trade with them.


The sanctions will end one day, and due to Russia's resources, it'll be earlier than you like.

On your first point, the sanctions are merely a function of the world not believing Russian lies. Ukraine is full of Nazis? Sanctioned. We were forced to invade Ukraine? Sanctioned. We are occupying four regions of Ukraine to liberate the citizens, who have voted to be a part of Russia? Sanctioned. You get the picture. Whether any future dictator will or won't continue to lie, and whether people will or won't continue to trade with Russia, does not change the fact that the current regime has delivered a lasting legacy of the world not believing Russian lies. My point stands.

On your second point, I agree that the sanctions will end one day. But I can't comment on whether they will end earlier than I would like, because I haven't yet formed an opinion on when I would like them to end. That will depend on what the end of the war looks like.

 

[Eric the meek]

Literally just posted. Another interesting rant by Prigorzhin about the MOD and the failings of their war. As @Eric the meek alluded.

Something has to give very soon. Roll on July 1st.

The rants are coming thick and fast now. Ukraine are obviously doing something right.

But I don't know what he's trying to achieve with that rant. Is he posturing, manoeuvring, trashing the Russian army to promote his own (political) agenda?
Anyway, isn't it illegal now in Russia to criticise the Russian army? Why hasn't he been arrested already? Is he above the law?

 

[peterward]

The rants are coming thick and fast now. Ukraine are obviously doing something right.

But I don't know what he's trying to achieve with that rant. Is he posturing, manoeuvring, trashing the Russian army to promote his own (political) agenda?
Anyway, isn't it illegal now in Russia to criticise the Russian army? Why hasn't he been arrested already? Is he above the law?

Above the law!

Russia is Crime without punishment & punishment without Crime.

 

[raymondo]

BBC Moscow correspondent Steve Rosenberg with an interesting update on that today from within!

That was very interesting thanks. Difficult to know what they believe any more: is it a sincere rebuttal or just a platitude such as an ambassador would make .

 

[raymondo]

Literally just posted. Another interesting rant by Prigorzhin about the MOD and the failings of their war. As @Eric the meek alluded.

Something has to give very soon. Roll on July 1st.

Extraordinary rant, with a lot of detail about the evolving situation on the front line.

 

[raymondo]

Interesting analysis of the impact of the blown dam.
Looking at the canal map, the top right network that was fed from the southern edge of the reservoir...one of those canals feeds into the farming community area where Mrs R's parents live (occupied area). An update from them yesterday saying the canal is now almost dried up. As well as supplying water for the fields, the canal was a welcome swimming spot for the local kids during the hot summers.

Ukraine dam: Satellite images reveal Kakhovka canals drying up

Following the destruction of the Kakhovka dam, BBC analysis reveals the changes in the surrounding area.

www.bbc.com

 

[Triggaaar]

On your first point, the sanctions are merely a function of the world not believing Russian lies. Ukraine is full of Nazis? Sanctioned. We were forced to invade Ukraine? Sanctioned. We are occupying four regions of Ukraine to liberate the citizens, who have voted to be a part of Russia? Sanctioned. You get the picture.

No, the sanctions are a result of Russias invasion, not the lies that came with it.
1) Russia were not sanctioned for saying that Ukraine is full of nazis. That would be weird.
2) Russia invaded Ukraine and we were sanctioned. You're suggesting that they were sanctioned because they later said 'we were forced to'. So your suggestion is that if Russia had invaded, but not bothered commenting on it, they would not have been sanctioned.
3) Same with the occupied areas.

If Russia agrees to leave Ukraine on the basis that the sanctions end, that would happen. If Russia then continue lying about everything in the future (and unless they're a democracy, they will) they won't suddenly get sanctioned.

China lie just as much, but they're not sanctioned.

Whether any future dictator will or won't continue to lie, and whether people will or won't continue to trade with Russia, does not change the fact that the current regime has delivered a lasting legacy of the world not believing Russian lies. My point stands.

I still disagree for the same reasons given.

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

Literally just posted. Another interesting rant by Prigorzhin about the MOD and the failings of their war. As @Eric the meek alluded.

Something has to give very soon. Roll on July 1st.

Interesting post, it appears all is not well within the Russian military.

A surprising level of detail, which does make me wonder if it’s deception, trying to get Ukraine to attack in a particular place.

 

[Eric the meek]

No, the sanctions are a result of Russias invasion, not the lies that came with it.

You're right and you're wrong. Let me explain.

Here is the event timeline:

Lies -----> 'Special military operation' and more lies --------> Sanctions and more lies

So you're right in that the sanctions are a result of Russia's invasion. But you're wrong in saying that they aren't a result of the lies.

The lies didn't just come with the invasion. They caused it. The invasion is just a product of a culture of lying, which you said has been going for at least 100 years. You were right. Putin had been doing the groundwork for the invasion for years - with the annexation of Crimea and the de-stabilisation of Donbas, ostensibly to protect ethnic Russians from persecution.

Today, his 3-day special military operation is 16 months old, and has highlighted and showcased to the world the old lies, and each day's fresh batch of new lies.

This was my original point. The whole world is now aware of Russian lying, more than ever before. This is the lasting legacy of the Russian regime.

 

[peterward]

You're right and you're wrong. Let me explain.

Here is the event timeline:

Lies -----> 'Special military operation' and more lies --------> Sanctions and more lies

So you're right in that the sanctions are a result of Russia's invasion. But you're wrong in saying that they aren't a result of the lies.

The lies didn't just come with the invasion. They caused it. The invasion is just a product of a culture of lying, which you said has been going for at least 100 years. You were right. Putin had been doing the groundwork for the invasion for years - with the annexation of Crimea and the de-stabilisation of Donbas, ostensibly to protect ethnic Russians from persecution.

Today, his 3-day special military operation is 16 months old, and has highlighted and showcased to the world the old lies, and each day's fresh batch of new lies.

This was my original point. The whole world is now aware of Russian lying, more than ever before. This is the lasting legacy of the Russian regime.

Obvs some parody thing that appeared today........ but underlying broader truths capture much of the above!

 

[Eric the meek]

Obvs some parody thing that appeared today........ but underlying broader truths capture much of the above!

It's not often you see a tweet in which the words are more powerful than the imagery.

 

[raymondo]

Surely a Storm Shadow missile would do more damage than this?? we have pot holes not much smaller than this in our village

Ukraine strikes Chonhar bridge to Crimea, says Russia

The bridge linking the peninsula to Kherson in the south was hit by British missiles, say officials.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[raymondo]

Obvs some parody thing that appeared today........ but underlying broader truths capture much of the above!

Nicely put together

 

[peterward]

ZSU ukrainian MOD just put of this tweet in English with Zelensky speaking in Ukrainian. (Can't understand the main man) but the English tweet is both worrying and not surprising.

 

[sparkie]

ZSU ukrainian MOD just put of this tweet in English with Zelensky speaking in Ukrainian. (Can't understand the main man) but the English tweet is both worrying and not surprising.

It is inconceivable that there isn't a plan to deal with this. A plan that will not be announced to the world in advance.

Because if there isn't a plan then the NATO/US rapid deployment forces in Europe are being run like the keystone cops.