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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
fly high
Well-known member
Sadly I don't think there are.
The only difference I could imagine would be if Russia actually broke up...then there'd be a number of his ilk. Hopefully they'd fight each other for a while.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,278
Somebody else posted an article that suggested after Putin another Putin, but I'm not convinced it will happen, unless Russia somehow wins or at least survives this war.
For sure this whole corrupt system will eventually try and replace Putin with another Putin if its still standing, there's a hell of a lot of ill gotten gains and many facing jail if the regime collapses, and without this war, I'd agree that was likely outcome.
But now with Russia losing 100's thousands of men and equipment, with a significant part of the world directly against and sanctioning Russia, with the 10's of thousands of provable war crimes and Putin on the ICC wanted list, I find it much harder to see how another Putin comes to power.
If/when Ukraine prevails on the battlefield that will mean a humiliation for Russia, its reputation already in ruins and its public presently unaware of the true extent of Putins fascism and the lies he uses to shield people from discovering the ugly truth.
A beaten Russia will start infighting, the Oligarchs with huge ties to west will want return to more normal relations and a defeated Russia will be presented with demands to hand over those wanted to have any chance of removing the noose from its neck.
Once the bubble bursts the regime is finished imho.
Hitler, Saddam, Mussolini, Gadaffi all had sucession plans too.
That's why we must do everything to ensure Ukraine wins, for Ukraine and to end Putins diabolical criminal regime.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,110
I took particular note of Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges when he said 'Putin is losing control of his warlords'.That was a very interesting listen, thank you
I've been (quietly) banging the drum of a Russian collapse, perhaps allied with armed insurrection for a while now, but there was an element of wishful thinking in it.
Indeed, there still is.
But consider recent events.
A drone attack on the Kremlin. On the Kremlin.
Another drone attack on Rublyovka, a wealthy suburb of Moscow, to showcase to the masses where the elite live. Ingenious.
We've had a number of incursions from 'partisans' into Russia.
On Russian state TV, we've had a participant openly calling for Putin to go.
There are others who have criticised the failings of the war.
Prigozhin has apparently made the 'astonishing' threat to use his paramilitary without defence ministry permission, to fight partisans in Belgorod.
Today, I read that mutinies could occur in Putin's military (source is Ukrainian intelligence, so pinch of salt, but it seems plausible):
Ukraine inflicting ‘hell’ on Russian lines as counter-offensive escalates - live
Heavy weapons supplied by the West are proving pivotal in the fierce battle raging outside Bakhmut
www.independent.co.uk
And my personal favourite:
Russia is blowing up its own infrastructure (a road between Ukraine and Russia, but inside Russia) in a bid to prevent further incursions.
I doubt it.
The Oligarchs will select a replacement. One that will give them global power, influence and of course, mountains and mountains of profit again. They need to sell oil and gas to the West. Putin needs to die for that to happen again.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,278
One thing is for sure, it's not ideologically driven. It's a den of thieves where the strong kill the weak.
They'll be secret plotting afoot already I'd guess
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,110
Guilty as charged your honour, although I was just summarising Keir Giles in post #11038. But I believe Giles would agree with your assessment above.
Another Putin will follow the current Putin unless Ukraine delivers a resounding victory.
My own belief is that we are entering uncharted territory - a nuclear superpower, run by an unelected despot, with several private armies on the loose, possibly about to collapse, and a populace slowly emerging blinking into the sunlight, for the first time in more than a century.
There are many possible futures for Russia.
That's certainly a possible scenario
'Spymania' meltdown ongoing in Russia
www.theguardian.com
‘Spymania’ grips Russian security services amid sharp rise in treason cases
The recent arrest of a number of high-profile scientists has led the scientific community to fear they are being targeted by the Kremlin
www.theguardian.com
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,273
- Thread starter
- #11,073
Saw a fairly high profile journo say the other day... " If you took a time machine randomly back in time, any time over the last thousand years and asked a local " Is Russia currently being run by a murdering psychopath intent on killing his own people ?" ... the answer is always yes "
1996-1990
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,110
My knowledge of Russian history over the past 1000 years is a bit sketchy, but I take your point.
My understanding is that there has also been huge inequality in the distribution of wealth. Today, in the post-Soviet era, it is no different, with wealth gravitating towards the gangsters who shout the loudest, make the most threats and carry them out.
This is why I think the drone attack on Rublyovka, Moscow's Beverley Hills, was a stroke of genius as a way of highlighting the inequality to the masses. I loved the ensuing outrage from the Russian 'elite'. Putin's vice-like grip on power will never have been challenged like this before.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,278
This is nuts and shows the fracturing within Russian ranks.
Prigorzhin and Wagner just posted a video where they've taken the commander of the Russian 72nd battalion hostage (72nd were the main Russian army unit fighting in Bakhmut with Wagner), clearly beaten him and made him confess to acting against Wagner.
Fascist former Russian commander of the Donetsk peoples Republic Igor Ghirkin is calling for Prigorzhin immediate arrest.
It must be hugely embarrassing for Putin. Hopefully this will be the beginning of the internal in-fighting/fracturing.
the civilian head of a private mercenary group has taken hostage a commander of the official Russian army, beaten him snd published video!
shirley this can only end for Prigorzhin with either him over throwing Putin or more likely his own assassination?
Prigorzhin and Wagner just posted a video where they've taken the commander of the Russian 72nd battalion hostage (72nd were the main Russian army unit fighting in Bakhmut with Wagner), clearly beaten him and made him confess to acting against Wagner.
Fascist former Russian commander of the Donetsk peoples Republic Igor Ghirkin is calling for Prigorzhin immediate arrest.
It must be hugely embarrassing for Putin. Hopefully this will be the beginning of the internal in-fighting/fracturing.
the civilian head of a private mercenary group has taken hostage a commander of the official Russian army, beaten him snd published video!
shirley this can only end for Prigorzhin with either him over throwing Putin or more likely his own assassination?
The latter is the more likely ending I think...unless Putin is enjoying the infighting for now (??).
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
More falling out of high window jinks upcoming