[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Weststander]

I was listening to PM on R4 yesterday and they were saying that Germany had still not agreed to send any of their Leopard tanks to Ukraine. Not only that, they were refusing to sign export licences to allow other countries (eg Poland) that had purchased Leopards to send them to Ukraine.

I wonder what their motivation is for that? Putin put the wind up them somehow?

I heard that R4 article too.

Scholz seems to want to be under the radar, not falling for media pressure to make a grandiose announcement at Davos.

Reasons? A need for Russian gas or scared of Germany being targeted eg by cyber warfare?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I heard that R4 article too.

Scholz seems to want to be under the radar, not falling for media pressure to make a grandiose announcement at Davos.

Reasons? A need for Russian gas or scared of Germany being targeted eg by cyber warfare?

Whatever, it's abject cowardice. The German people ought to be letting him know in no uncertain terms who's side they wish their government to be on

 

[Weststander]

I was listening to PM on R4 yesterday and they were saying that Germany had still not agreed to send any of their Leopard tanks to Ukraine. Not only that, they were refusing to sign export licences to allow other countries (eg Poland) that had purchased Leopards to send them to Ukraine.

I wonder what their motivation is for that? Putin put the wind up them somehow?

I have the answer, kind of.

 

[raymondo]

I was listening to PM on R4 yesterday and they were saying that Germany had still not agreed to send any of their Leopard tanks to Ukraine. Not only that, they were refusing to sign export licences to allow other countries (eg Poland) that had purchased Leopards to send them to Ukraine.

I wonder what their motivation is for that? Putin put the wind up them somehow?

As @Weststander quotes below, I also read in a different feed that Germany await 'approval' from the US to do it and also want to be assured that the US will too be sending tanks to Ukraine.
FWIW I do think this will come together soon. Better late than never

 

[raymondo]

A message of support and best wishes for all NSCers who have family/relations in Ukraine, or displaced elsewhere.
I can't begin to imagine the trauma and stress you will have undergone.

One day, it will be over. Let's hope it's really soon and that when it does happen, it will be permanent, so that Ukraine can rebuild free of fear.

Russia must be rendered incapable of going on the warpath ever again.

Thank you for your support @Eric the meek . Our relatives in Ukraine are safe (although 4 are displaced). In-laws village is under occupation (north of Melitopol) but relatively calm thank goodness . Teenage niece stays with us in Wiltshire. We have been lucky compared to many.
Cheers for your positive thoughts

 

[Eric the meek]

Thank you for your support @Eric the meek . Our relatives in Ukraine are safe (although 4 are displaced). In-laws village is under occupation (north of Melitopol) but relatively calm thank goodness . Teenage niece stays with us in Wiltshire. We have been lucky compared to many.
Cheers for your positive thoughts

That's good to hear. Also good is that you are accentuating the positives. That's very important.

Good luck and let's hope 2023 sees an acceptable end to the war for Ukraine. I think it will.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Weve sent money, recently, to medics working in Bakhmut, for winter equipment and to go towards a generator. Our main contact was the Mum of a medic there that my wife knows. His Mum was saying, that he said, that the worse thing is the smell of dead bodies everywhere as the Russians dont take their dead with them.

I’ve read that one reason for leaving their dead behind is to avoid having to pay insurance to the family of the deceased - only payable if the body is returned home.

 

[A1X]

Apologies if fixtures

Defensive missile systems erected on Moscow rooftops

Kremlin appears to prepare for strikes on Russian capital by installing interception systems

www.theguardian.com

 

[raymondo]

Ukraine: US and European countries pledge heavy weapons

The US and nine European nations promise more firepower ahead of a major donor conference on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Weststander]

On BBC2 Newsnight right now. Dealing with the tanks and hardware issue.

 

[jcdenton08]

Ukraine: US and European countries pledge heavy weapons

The US and nine European nations promise more firepower ahead of a major donor conference on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

This can only be a good thing

 

[peterward]

I was listening to PM on R4 yesterday and they were saying that Germany had still not agreed to send any of their Leopard tanks to Ukraine. Not only that, they were refusing to sign export licences to allow other countries (eg Poland) that had purchased Leopards to send them to Ukraine.

I wonder what their motivation is for that? Putin put the wind up them somehow?

This twitter thread by a Finnish security/defence expert has been widely acclaimed in the past day, even quoted in the NYT. Gives a good insight into why Germany are being so bloody minded.

TL/DR Terrified of escalation due optics of triggering a larger conflict again.

 

[raymondo]

Apologies if fixtures

Defensive missile systems erected on Moscow rooftops

Kremlin appears to prepare for strikes on Russian capital by installing interception systems

www.theguardian.com

Possibly a double 'purpose' from Russia: 'proving' to Russians how dangerous Ukraine is (to justify their invasion); also, last week, Ukraine did announce they'd developed longer range offensive drones

 

[raymondo]

This twitter thread by a Finnish security/defence expert has been widely acclaimed in the past day, even quoted in the NYT. Gives a good insight into why Germany are being so bloody minded.

TL/DR Terrified of escalation due optics of triggering a larger conflict again.

That was an interesting read, thanks, and some of the responses were too . Good that the OP replied to some of the early responses.

 

[vegster]

I heard that R4 article too.

Scholz seems to want to be under the radar, not falling for media pressure to make a grandiose announcement at Davos.

Reasons? A need for Russian gas or scared of Germany being targeted eg by cyber warfare?

Kompromat on Scholz ?

 

[Albion in the north]

I’ve read that one reason for leaving their dead behind is to avoid having to pay insurance to the family of the deceased - only payable if the body is returned home.

That and the fact that they would have to actually acknowledge how many were dead.

 

[Eric the meek]

This twitter thread by a Finnish security/defence expert has been widely acclaimed in the past day, even quoted in the NYT. Gives a good insight into why Germany are being so bloody minded.

TL/DR Terrified of escalation due optics of triggering a larger conflict again.

I can see why that twitter thread has been widely acclaimed. It is an excellent analysis of German hand-wringing.

 

[jcdenton08]

Lot of pressure falling on the Germans here, while the French do F-all.

 

[Binney on acid]

Lot of pressure falling on the Germans here, while the French do F-all.

Someone's got to manufacture white flags.

 

[raymondo]