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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,276
These 2 tweets today really bring home the reality of the personal loss of those fighting against Russian fascism. Both about the same fella Viktor, first is 4 tweet series of things he wrote before heading into really tough mission, second tweet with a link to translated letter of his wife.

Harrowing and emotional. The reality of Russian fascism.



 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,357
Wiltshire
These 2 tweets today really bring home the reality of the personal loss of those fighting against Russian fascism. Both about the same fella Viktor, first is 4 tweet series of things he wrote before heading into really tough mission, second tweet with a link to translated letter of his wife.

Harrowing and emotional. The reality of Russian fascism.




@peterward devastating to read those tweets but thank you for posting. Incredibly sad and being repeated thousands of times across Ukraine.
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,357
Wiltshire
Im surprised no ones posted this on here. Really dont know what to say about Zelensky. He will, no doubt, have his detractors, but if ever there has been the right person in the right place, at the right time, its him, in Ukraine and now.


@Albion in the north I've just listened to his New Year speech again, every word this time. My Ukrainian wife and niece were in pieces listening on New Year's Eve... and now it's my turn.
What an astonishingly calm, complete and rousing speech.
 


peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,276
Im surprised no ones posted this on here. Really dont know what to say about Zelensky. He will, no doubt, have his detractors, but if ever there has been the right person in the right place, at the right time, its him, in Ukraine and now.


Out in Tenerife with the Ukrainian Mrs and mother in law. We all watched this new years night and had same reaction.

He is exactly the right person at the right time and exactly the leader Ukraine needed. Being brave, young, modern, forward looking, aspirational he is the perfect counterweight to cowardly, backwards looking tyrant Putin. Being a Jewish family man also shows up the ridiculous "Nazi" propganda bullshit.

a brilliant team. General Zaluzhnyi is incredible. Podolyak, Reznikov are excellent modern thinkers too.
 
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raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,357
Wiltshire
Out in Tenerife with the Ukrainian Mrs and mother in law. We all watched this new years night and had same reaction.

He is exactly the right person at the right time and exactly the leader Ukraine needed. Being brave, young, modern, forward looking, aspirational he is the perfect counterweight to cowardly, backwards looking tyrant Putin. Being a Jewish family man also shows up the ridiculous "Nazi" propganda bullshit.

a brilliant team. General Zaluzhnyi is incredible. Podolyak, Reznikov are excellent modern thinkers too.
Yes, and as you say, also surrounded by an excellent team 👍...'even' the guy who keeps the train network running. A friend of ours recently departed Kyiv station 30 minutes late, and arrived in Zaporizhzhya on time ✔️.
Hope you're enjoying some decent weather.
 






Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,224
Seaford
He certainly doesn't care about the human aspect of the losses, but you're mistaken to think that he has unlimited soldiers and weapons. Ukraine can win this militarily. They have more soldiers willing to fight than Russia, and thanks to support from the West have a larger manufacturing capability too.
I'm not so sure. Putin can simply go on conscripting and there's no suggestion that anyone is going to put a stop to that. Those conscripts might not be motivated but they'll be bussed to the front line and armed, so motivation or not, sheer numbers may wear the good guys down. Nor do I think he's going to simply allow his weapons supply to be exhausted, I assume they have been ramping up their production capability this past 12 months. Gotta pray the Chinese don't start supplying him. As for the West continuing to supply Ukraine then long may that last too but with the Presidential campaign getting underway at the end of this year the economic effect will certainly be high on the campaigning agenda.

I'm as half empty in respect to the outcome of this conflict as I've ever been about anything. I hope you're right, that the motivation of the Ukrainians and the support they are getting will allow them to prevail. But I fear that ignores the lengths that Putin is prepared to go to in order to get his way.

Desperately want to be wrong!
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,544
Deepest, darkest Sussex
May 2023 be the year that we finally get to watch Putin's funeral on the box. Sooner, rather than later.
I'll even offer them a dustpan and brush to scrape whatever's left off the floor beneath the high window he'll have accidentally fallen out of.
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,464
Hove
Out in Tenerife with the Ukrainian Mrs and mother in law. We all watched this new years night and had same reaction.

He is exactly the right person at the right time and exactly the leader Ukraine needed. Being brave, young, modern, forward looking, aspirational he is the perfect counterweight to cowardly, backwards looking tyrant Putin. Being a Jewish family man also shows up the ridiculous "Nazi" propganda bullshit.

a brilliant team. General Zaluzhnyi is incredible. Podolyak, Reznikov are excellent modern thinkers too.
Read the story of how the residents of Sumy, without any military support, hardly any of them with any training whatsoever, with a small stockpile of weapons and ammunition and homemade molotov cocktails held out against Russian forces using Whatsapp to organise themselves and incredible bravery. Unimaginable that one day you're just going about your normal day, next day you are risking your life to defend your town. I'm sure the story has been repeated around Ukraine, but it seems the story of Sumy has continued to be highlighted by Zelenskiy in his speeches.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,156
Goldstone
I'm not so sure. Putin can simply go on conscripting and there's no suggestion that anyone is going to put a stop to that. Those conscripts might not be motivated but they'll be bussed to the front line and armed, so motivation or not, sheer numbers may wear the good guys down. Nor do I think he's going to simply allow his weapons supply to be exhausted, I assume they have been ramping up their production capability this past 12 months.
A constant line of untrained and unmotivated troops is a recipe for disaster. And they won't all be armed or even equipped properly. The first lot of conscripts didn't have basics like sleeping bags etc. Russia just aren't prepared for a war of this scale.


Gotta pray the Chinese don't start supplying him.
Yes, that would be a game changer. The West would then have to sanction China too. Is that really in China's interests? I hope not.

As for the West continuing to supply Ukraine then long may that last too but with the Presidential campaign getting underway at the end of this year the economic effect will certainly be high on the campaigning agenda.
Their election is nearly 2 years away, and Europe and the US are pretty united. What would it mean for the future of democracy if the West allowed Russia to take over Ukraine? I don't think abandoning them is a realistic option for a democratic West.


I'm as half empty in respect to the outcome of this conflict as I've ever been about anything. I hope you're right, that the motivation of the Ukrainians and the support they are getting will allow them to prevail. But I fear that ignores the lengths that Putin is prepared to go to in order to get his way.

Desperately want to be wrong!
I agree he'll go to whatever lengths he's able to, but I don't think that will win him this war. We'll see, and both hope Ukraine prevail.
 




Change at Barnham

Well-known member
Aug 6, 2011
5,468
Bognor Regis
Could it be that the US would be happy to keep Russia engaged and slowly wear them down economically despite the fighting continuing for longer than any of us would want.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
8,624
Could it be that the US would be happy to keep Russia engaged and slowly wear them down economically despite the fighting continuing for longer than any of us would want.
In theory yes, but the actions of the US don't back this theory up. They've given way more than the UK or other European countries. Its not just up to them. Other countries could be doing more
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,156
Goldstone
Could it be that the US would be happy to keep Russia engaged and slowly wear them down economically despite the fighting continuing for longer than any of us would want.
Russia aren't an economic rival to the US, and they're no longer a military rival either, so there's no need for the US to do that. The sooner Ukraine win this war, the better for the US.
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,544
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Could it be that the US would be happy to keep Russia engaged and slowly wear them down economically despite the fighting continuing for longer than any of us would want.
In addition to the above there’s also the risk of contagion of impacts into Europe. This winter will see a lot of economic problems, another one could have unforeseen consequences and threaten the integrity of the western union.
 








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