driddles
Well-known member
Good question, that was just the first chart I found with numbers on it, apparently not fully inclusive.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,501
Genuine question - I know Germany, ourselves and the US (and Scandinavia, plus Finland) have been quite vocal. I’ve heard next to nothing from the French within British media
The French are too busy manufacturing white flags.
Some views from the ISW on Zelensky Vs Putin approach to things: interesting background reading (IMO 
)
Putin’s decision to award members of his circle who have not even been directly involved in fighting in contrast with Zelensky’s visit near the front lines in Bakhmut sparked some criticism among Russian nationalist voices. A former Russian militant commander and critical voice in the Russian information space, Igor Girkin, noted that Putin is awarding “his heroes in the Kremlin” but not Russian and proxy servicemen who are engaged in combat on the frontlines.[14] Other milbloggers speculated that the Kremlin made a secretive political decision for a Russian ceasefire, allowing Zelensky to walk around Bakhmut.[15] Another milblogger reiterated that Putin had not visited the occupied territories and stated that Russian forces would not be able to effectively conduct a precision strike in time against Zelensky.[16]Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut upstaged Putin’s efforts to establish himself as a wartime commander-in-chief and turned Putin’s own information operation into an embarrassment even within parts of the pro-war Russian information space.
Wagner financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin further undermined Putin, possibly inadvertently, within the Russian information space by attempting to boost his standing against the backdrop of Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut. Prigozhin published a series of videos claiming he arrived at the frontlines near Bakhmut to speak to Zelensky regarding the control of territories in the area.[17] Prigozhin’s “offers” to negotiate with Zelensky are neither serious nor authoritative, since he does not hold any official position in Russia. Prigozhin, however, continues to pose as a prominent political and military figure in Russia. Such farcical comments are likely a response to Zelensky‘s repeated offers to negotiate directly with Putin after Russia withdraws its forces from Ukraine. Prigozhin’s appearance on the frontline further weakens Putin’s presentation of himself as a wartime leader, since Putin has not even visited Russian-occupied territories, let alone gone anywhere near the front lines. Social media users additionally exposed that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu did not actually visit the frontlines on December 17 - as he claimed - by geolocating the videos the Russian MoD posted of Shoigu‘s trip in Armyansk, Crimea.[18] While Prigozhin did not directly criticize Putin for his inability to directly address Zelensky or arrive on the frontlines, his and Zelensky’s visits to the frontlines threaten to make Putin’s posing as a wartime commander in chief humiliating rather than effective.
)Putin’s decision to award members of his circle who have not even been directly involved in fighting in contrast with Zelensky’s visit near the front lines in Bakhmut sparked some criticism among Russian nationalist voices. A former Russian militant commander and critical voice in the Russian information space, Igor Girkin, noted that Putin is awarding “his heroes in the Kremlin” but not Russian and proxy servicemen who are engaged in combat on the frontlines.[14] Other milbloggers speculated that the Kremlin made a secretive political decision for a Russian ceasefire, allowing Zelensky to walk around Bakhmut.[15] Another milblogger reiterated that Putin had not visited the occupied territories and stated that Russian forces would not be able to effectively conduct a precision strike in time against Zelensky.[16]Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut upstaged Putin’s efforts to establish himself as a wartime commander-in-chief and turned Putin’s own information operation into an embarrassment even within parts of the pro-war Russian information space.
Wagner financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin further undermined Putin, possibly inadvertently, within the Russian information space by attempting to boost his standing against the backdrop of Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut. Prigozhin published a series of videos claiming he arrived at the frontlines near Bakhmut to speak to Zelensky regarding the control of territories in the area.[17] Prigozhin’s “offers” to negotiate with Zelensky are neither serious nor authoritative, since he does not hold any official position in Russia. Prigozhin, however, continues to pose as a prominent political and military figure in Russia. Such farcical comments are likely a response to Zelensky‘s repeated offers to negotiate directly with Putin after Russia withdraws its forces from Ukraine. Prigozhin’s appearance on the frontline further weakens Putin’s presentation of himself as a wartime leader, since Putin has not even visited Russian-occupied territories, let alone gone anywhere near the front lines. Social media users additionally exposed that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu did not actually visit the frontlines on December 17 - as he claimed - by geolocating the videos the Russian MoD posted of Shoigu‘s trip in Armyansk, Crimea.[18] While Prigozhin did not directly criticize Putin for his inability to directly address Zelensky or arrive on the frontlines, his and Zelensky’s visits to the frontlines threaten to make Putin’s posing as a wartime commander in chief humiliating rather than effective.
JamesAndTheGiantHead
Well-known member
France have provided 2% of the overall military aid to Ukraine, with the US making up nearly 50%.
What they have given, namely 18 of their Caesar mobile artillery/howitzers, have been lauded by the Ukrainians as very effective. 18 doesn’t sound like a lot until you realise that makes up a quarter of France’s active numbers of the system within their own standing army.
So I guess it’s relevant. Poland have gone above and beyond with their supplies but the majority of that is outdated Soviet equipment - important for the slog work but won’t make a huge overall difference in swinging the odds in Ukraine’s favour. I think if you asked them they’d take 10 HIMAR units over 100 T72’s for instance.
PS I am not French and have no interest in France, just commenting for balance.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,098
'Russia may finally be getting its act together in Ukraine war as Zelenskyy makes trip to US'
news.sky.com
Away from the headline and down in the guts of the article, I am drawn to this:
'There is also a sense the West is giving Ukraine just enough weapons to continue this war, but not to finish it.'
Many months ago I commented to the effect that the Pentagon had got Russia exactly where it wants it - bogged down in a war it started but cannot win and cannot stop, draining Russia of money, arms, morale, goodwill, trust, public support, friends, influence, future trading partners and customers for its natural resources, while showcasing the weakness of the Russian military to the whole world. It is in the interests of the Pentagon to prolong this process and continue to weaken Russia, picking the bones of the Russian carcass, while not risking anyone in the US military, but trickle charging Ukraine with NATO surplus arms.
The US is playing an absolute blinder.
Russia may finally be getting its act together in Ukraine war as Zelenskyy makes trip to US
Volodymyr Zelenskyy knows there are grumblings, particularly on the right of American politics, about the amount of help being given to his country. This is his chance to meet American politicians of all stripes, look them in the eye, and say he needs more help.
Away from the headline and down in the guts of the article, I am drawn to this:
'There is also a sense the West is giving Ukraine just enough weapons to continue this war, but not to finish it.'
Many months ago I commented to the effect that the Pentagon had got Russia exactly where it wants it - bogged down in a war it started but cannot win and cannot stop, draining Russia of money, arms, morale, goodwill, trust, public support, friends, influence, future trading partners and customers for its natural resources, while showcasing the weakness of the Russian military to the whole world. It is in the interests of the Pentagon to prolong this process and continue to weaken Russia, picking the bones of the Russian carcass, while not risking anyone in the US military, but trickle charging Ukraine with NATO surplus arms.
The US is playing an absolute blinder.
What is the ISW?Some views from the ISW on Zelensky Vs Putin approach to things: interesting background reading (IMO
Putin’s decision to award members of his circle who have not even been directly involved in fighting in contrast with Zelensky’s visit near the front lines in Bakhmut sparked some criticism among Russian nationalist voices. A former Russian militant commander and critical voice in the Russian information space, Igor Girkin, noted that Putin is awarding “his heroes in the Kremlin” but not Russian and proxy servicemen who are engaged in combat on the frontlines.[14] Other milbloggers speculated that the Kremlin made a secretive political decision for a Russian ceasefire, allowing Zelensky to walk around Bakhmut.[15] Another milblogger reiterated that Putin had not visited the occupied territories and stated that Russian forces would not be able to effectively conduct a precision strike in time against Zelensky.[16]Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut upstaged Putin’s efforts to establish himself as a wartime commander-in-chief and turned Putin’s own information operation into an embarrassment even within parts of the pro-war Russian information space.
Wagner financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin further undermined Putin, possibly inadvertently, within the Russian information space by attempting to boost his standing against the backdrop of Zelensky’s visit to Bakhmut. Prigozhin published a series of videos claiming he arrived at the frontlines near Bakhmut to speak to Zelensky regarding the control of territories in the area.[17] Prigozhin’s “offers” to negotiate with Zelensky are neither serious nor authoritative, since he does not hold any official position in Russia. Prigozhin, however, continues to pose as a prominent political and military figure in Russia. Such farcical comments are likely a response to Zelensky‘s repeated offers to negotiate directly with Putin after Russia withdraws its forces from Ukraine. Prigozhin’s appearance on the frontline further weakens Putin’s presentation of himself as a wartime leader, since Putin has not even visited Russian-occupied territories, let alone gone anywhere near the front lines. Social media users additionally exposed that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu did not actually visit the frontlines on December 17 - as he claimed - by geolocating the videos the Russian MoD posted of Shoigu‘s trip in Armyansk, Crimea.[18] While Prigozhin did not directly criticize Putin for his inability to directly address Zelensky or arrive on the frontlines, his and Zelensky’s visits to the frontlines threaten to make Putin’s posing as a wartime commander in chief humiliating rather than effective.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,272
- Thread starter
- #9,748
Ah but Putin did say that Ukraine was full of Nazi's ...ergo brothers ?Just when you thought it was impossible for Putin to be any more ridiculous:
'Ukraine war: Russia not to blame for conflict - Putin'
Ukraine war: Russia not to blame for conflict - Putin
President Vladimir Putin says he still continues to see Ukraine as a brotherly nation.www.bbc.co.uk
'There's nothing to accuse us of. We've always seen Ukrainians as a brotherly people and I still think so.'
Last edited:
Solid at the back
Well-known member
The institute for the study of war.
Institute for the Study of War
Our Mission The Institute for the Study of War advances an informed understanding of military affairs through reliable research, trusted analysis, and innovative education. We are committed to improving the nation’s ability to execute military operations
portslade seagull
Well-known member
White flagged again. Macron wanted the Ukrainians to talk peace with Russia and cede the territory that had been lost. Zelensky more or less told them to do one.
Macron does seem to be a Putin puppet
Bit of an odd post given there’s another one made earlier this evening explaining what the French actually are doing.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,263
This war is keeping the EU / GB economies weak because of the energy problem, and those are big markets for the US.'Russia may finally be getting its act together in Ukraine war as Zelenskyy makes trip to US'
Russia may finally be getting its act together in Ukraine war as Zelenskyy makes trip to US
Volodymyr Zelenskyy knows there are grumblings, particularly on the right of American politics, about the amount of help being given to his country. This is his chance to meet American politicians of all stripes, look them in the eye, and say he needs more help.
Away from the headline and down in the guts of the article, I am drawn to this:
'There is also a sense the West is giving Ukraine just enough weapons to continue this war, but not to finish it.'
Many months ago I commented to the effect that the Pentagon had got Russia exactly where it wants it - bogged down in a war it started but cannot win and cannot stop, draining Russia of money, arms, morale, goodwill, trust, public support, friends, influence, future trading partners and customers for its natural resources, while showcasing the weakness of the Russian military to the whole world. It is in the interests of the Pentagon to prolong this process and continue to weaken Russia, picking the bones of the Russian carcass, while not risking anyone in the US military, but trickle charging Ukraine with NATO surplus arms.
The US is playing an absolute blinder.
I read the other day, may be the Guardian but can’t find it now, that of you work out the proportion of aid and weapons given by a country’s GDP, France and Germany together don’t equal what the UK has given on its own. Pretty sad really when you think how rich these counties are.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Sorry, it's the Institute for the Study of War, I should have said... Probably full of boffins and some senior ex-military. They post lots of detailed stuff (too much for me to read sometimes) but I find some sections useful to me.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,263
To be fair to Germany, their military has remained modest since they wee forced to demilitarise after WW2, although a by-product of Putin's War is that Germany is now actively enlarging its military capability in the knowledge it will be expected to play a larger role in combatting Russian aggression in the future.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,263
I watched some of this live last night. There was a lot of love in the room for the Ukrainian leader. It was emotional although it's not lost on me a lot of Americans are loving sticking it to the Russians vicariously via the Ukrainians. This is the Hot War they never had.
Weststander
Well-known member
He and his people are true heroes.
Our ‘adopted’ Ukrainian family member has gone back to Kyiv for 6 weeks to spend time with her Dad who wasn’t allowed to leave.
She’s sent us videos of Ukrainians warmly celebrating togetherness and simply still being alive in plazas and malls, because their homes often have no power.
Just 1,300 miles away, a hitherto peaceful people are holding back a fascist and his killing machine.
We must back them for as long as it takes.