[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[rigton70]

But at the same time, should Ukraine start lobbing (western supplied) missiles into Russian towns and cities as a tit-for-tat response, they would immediately lose the moral ground they have thus far held in the eyes of the world. I could imagine NATO taking a dim view of this as well. Its one thing for the West to supply weapons to help Ukrainians defend their homeland and drive the invading Russian forces back out from within their borders. But start shelling innocent Russian civilians in their towns - lowering themselves to the level of Putin - would be a dangerous escalation, and would not help them in the propaganda war.

You say Ukrainians shelling Russian towns would make Putin even more unpopular in Russia. I think it could have the reverse effect, and end up giving him a mandate to do something more drastic in response.

As I understand Ukraine are under strict orders not to attack Russia and Belarus territory.

 

[Eric the meek]

Trolls who can't spell the bile they're spouting really are the pits.


.....and don't even know who was or was not an American president, eh Tovarich?

I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I did raise an eyebrow at the spelling of Zelensky, when his name has been plastered all over the world's media for 7-8 months.

We've also had a successful thread derailment of the Liz Truss thread.

 

[GT49er]

I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I did raise an eyebrow at the spelling of Zelensky, when his name has been plastered all over the world's media for 7-8 months.

We've also had a successful thread derailment of the Liz Truss thread.

Really? The mind boggles!

One syllable too many for some, I suppose.

 

[Triggaaar]

Russia is ####ed. Sad for the 90% of the Russian population who detest Putin as much as 99.999% of the rest of the world.
The only solution will come over Putins dead body.

90% of Russians really don't despise him as much as the rest of the world. It's no democracy, but the controlled media does mean that they've fooled a lot of Russians into thinking he's a good president.

 

[crookie]

Certainly won't lose any sleep about supposed 'massing' of Russian forces in Belarus. If there are any, more than likely there to prop up Lukashenko than any prospect of offensive action. The idea that the Russian army is in any state, troop or equipment wise, to conduct large scale offensive operations is fanciful. Their premier unit, the 1st Guards Tank Army has been badly mauled, initially in the first offensive and latterly in the Kharkiv counteroffensive. It will take months, if not years to reconstitute itself as an effective offensive force. The remnants of their airborne forces, the VDV are fighting a rearguard infantry battle in the Kherson area, after suffering bad losses at Hostomel Airport in the early days. The idea that raw recruits, in the absence of large scale training facilities and officers are going to morph into anything better, with even less capable equipment than the professional forces who went before is delusional. In purely conventional terms, ukraine will win this war, if not this year, then next, as long as the West keeps supplying them. I believe they will. What Putin will do when he eventually realises it is unfortunately the great unknown.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[dangull]

The expert on Newsnight reckons that the tactic of Putin will just be to dig in now and hold onto the territory that's occupied. He doesn't think the Ukrainians will gain much more ground soon with the winter setting in. Apparently, this tactic worked quite well in Georgia some time ago.

 

[Weststander]

4 Russian helicopters eliminated in 18 minutes this morning and astack of other hardware throughout the day.

The Netherlands will deliver £13.19m worth of air defence missiles to Ukraine in reaction to Russian air raids.

Defence minister Kasja Ollongren said: “These attacks... can only be met with unrelenting support for Ukraine and its people.”

Ukraine received the first Iris-T defence system from Germany, Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said late on Tuesday.

He tweeted: "IRIS-Ts from (Germany) are already here. (American) NASAMS are coming. This is only the beginning. And we need more.

"There is a moral imperative to protect the sky over (Ukraine) in order to save our people."

 

[Weststander]

The expert on Newsnight reckons that the tactic of Putin will just be to dig in now and hold onto the territory that's occupied. He doesn't think the Ukrainians will gain much more ground soon with the winter setting in. Apparently, this tactic worked quite well in Georgia some time ago.

Did Georgia have the technological might and resources of NATO on their side?

 

[Sirnormangall]

Interesting comment re Belarus. I quite like France 24 as an additional source of news and today they interviewed the exiled opposition leader of Belarus, who said that there’s still significant government repression but that there’s a very active underground opposition. Regime change in Belarus might become a possibility if Putin becomes weaker - but that’s also another reason why he can’t afford to lose in Ukraine.

 

[jakarta]

Wonder why Vlad wants to reopen gas supplies to the EU - slight lack of funds perhaps?

Gas taps can still be turned on to EU, says Vladimir Putin

The Russian president says the "ball is in the EU's court", but Germany quickly rejects the offer.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Solid at the back]

Wonder why Vlad wants to reopen gas supplies to the EU - slight lack of funds perhaps?

Gas taps can still be turned on to EU, says Vladimir Putin

The Russian president says the "ball is in the EU's court", but Germany quickly rejects the offer.

www.bbc.co.uk

This was my first thought too. Act if desperation, perhaps?

 

[A1X]

Wonder why Vlad wants to reopen gas supplies to the EU - slight lack of funds perhaps?

Gas taps can still be turned on to EU, says Vladimir Putin

The Russian president says the "ball is in the EU's court", but Germany quickly rejects the offer.

www.bbc.co.uk

Test the resolve of the European people. They can have their cheaper energy back, are they willing to sacrifice Ukraine for it? Right now, they aren’t. I hope that lasts.

 

[sparkie]

The expert on Newsnight reckons that the tactic of Putin will just be to dig in now and hold onto the territory that's occupied. He doesn't think the Ukrainians will gain much more ground soon with the winter setting in. Apparently, this tactic worked quite well in Georgia some time ago.

 

[sparkie]

The expert on Newsnight reckons that the tactic of Putin will just be to dig in now and hold onto the territory that's occupied. He doesn't think the Ukrainians will gain much more ground soon with the winter setting in. Apparently, this tactic worked quite well in Georgia some time ago.

 

[peterward]

Wonder why Vlad wants to reopen gas supplies to the EU - slight lack of funds perhaps?

Gas taps can still be turned on to EU, says Vladimir Putin

The Russian president says the "ball is in the EU's court", but Germany quickly rejects the offer.

www.bbc.co.uk

No, hes going to try and force the opening of NS2 in my opinion, the newest pipeline to Germany that never opened due to start of war.

After he did his first BS "leak - need to shutdown" on NS1, and then after indefinitely closed NS1, he said then Germany/EU can have as much gas as they need if they open NS2. Germany declined.

Then NS1 was destroyed in the much publicised sabotage attack and also one of the 2 NS2 pipelines, leaving just one NS2 pipeline in tact. Also Putin has shutdown the other main gas pipeline to europe that goes through Belarus/Poland to Germany the Yamal pipeline.

Gas pipeline map here https://www.planete-energies.com/en...-pipelines-between-europe-russia-and-caucasia

So now only gas lines to Europe are the Soyouz and Brotherhood lines that go through Ukraine and join into one in Ukraine before going on to Europe. Read loads of analysts that say Putin is totally pissed about NS2 not opening and it would be huge politically for Putin and very divisive in the west if he could force its opening.

Therefore, (i agree with a lot of the analysts ive read), that Putin at some point in the winter will either cut the supplies through Ukraine with BS reasons or sabotage, which will futher hike gas prices, leaving EU with one option, 1 pipe from NS2, at same time expect to see rentacrowd pro russian protest rallies in european capitals.

Putin is setting the stage to try and force EU into accepting the closed and sanctioned single NS2 pipeline as its only option.

 

[A1X]

 

[raymondo]

Test the resolve of the European people. They can have their cheaper energy back, are they willing to sacrifice Ukraine for it? Right now, they aren’t. I hope that lasts.

I certainly hope our resolve lasts @A1X, any step back by us and it will be the end...first for Ukraine and then for the next country of Putin's choosing.

 

[sparkie]

Eritrea seems to have stopped voting for the dark side as well.


Serbia and to a lesser extent Hungary very welcome unexpected votes.

 

[raymondo]

Eritrea seems to have stopped voting for the dark side as well.


Serbia and to a lesser extent Hungary very welcome unexpected votes.

Yes, Serbia and Hungary seem to play both sides. Erdogan...I never know what he's up to...seems more comfortable meeting and chatting with Putin over 'future next steps' than he does with Zelensky.

 

[beorhthelm]

Wonder why Vlad wants to reopen gas supplies to the EU - slight lack of funds perhaps?

Gas taps can still be turned on to EU, says Vladimir Putin

The Russian president says the "ball is in the EU's court", but Germany quickly rejects the offer.

www.bbc.co.uk

one practical reason is what happens at the gas fields. Russia has little storage, without the delivery there's nowhere for gas production to go. eventually has to shut down the fields, which means a lot of people out of work (idle even if subbed) and the field can be difficult to restart.